Turkey? coup? WTH?

[mattiasNYC]

today they also pull out 20 000 teachers and around 1000 doyen
This is a deep purge and remind me the dark age of nazism before the war... like june29 1934 and nov9 1938

Turkey is in NATO !
I have no idea how all this will go...
Best
Zam

Crazy....

 

[sahib]

I do not support  coups and I am not a Gulen sympathiser. I am not even sure if he is behind this all. He may well be. I don't know.

But what I know is that with this stupid coup attempt they  pretty much gave Erdogan a blank cheque.

McCarthy?

You ain't seen nothing yet.

You can bet they will clear off Gulenists  from every office.

You can also bet who they will replace them with.

 

[zamproject]

But what I know is that with this stupid coup attempt they  pretty much gave Erdogan a blank cheque.

More I think about it, more I think that a so bad prepared coup is not a coup...
And I start questioning if it's not a manipulation.

How the Erdogan government can decently in few days investigate "guilty" and arrest/pull off something around 50000 ppl.
Files have been set way before, and the real coup is Erdogan move

To me it's an Islamic revolution without the name.

Best
Zam

 

[mattiasNYC]

But what I know is that with this stupid coup attempt they  pretty much gave Erdogan a blank cheque.

More I think about it, more I think that a so bad prepared coup is not a coup...
And I start questioning if it's not a manipulation.

How the Erdogan government can decently in few days investigate "guilty" and arrest/pull off something around 50000 ppl.
Files have been set way before, and the real coup is Erdogan move

To me it's an Islamic revolution without the name.

Best
Zam

A good question to ask and a reasonable suspicion. This is very worrying I think.

 

[zamproject]

Yes it is
Here in France no national media decently talk about it, because of the recent attack in Nice which monopolize all media with discussing internal security politics.
But the Turkish evolution and decisions in the past few days is absolutely dangerous, for Turkish ppl at first , but also for UE (there is already tensions with Greece with the escaped military chopper whit crew asking for politic asylum), for porosity with Syria conflict (Erdogan help ISIS with weapon...), and for NATO.

Prime minister speech yesterday with  tears is Bollywood style...
The Erdogan speech about restoring death sentence is unbelievable...

  :'(
Zam

 

[sahib]

But what I know is that with this stupid coup attempt they  pretty much gave Erdogan a blank cheque.

More I think about it, more I think that a so bad prepared coup is not a coup...
And I start questioning if it's not a manipulation.

We obviously get to know as much as we get from the social media but as pretty much everybody else I also thought this was very badly choreographed and very amateurish.  But then it became clear that some other groups which were supposed to join did not. The communication among them were also cut off. They pretty much became sitting ducks. Just watch some of the videos. They try to take CNN with a handful of soldiers. Literally in half an hour police starts to slap them around.  Same at Ataturk Airport. In a couple of hours the game was over.

In a way I am glad  that the government immediately blamed this on Gulen. This  possibly prevented the secular population to come out to cheer because they would not want to be associated with him. However, not every secular would do this of course, as even among the secularist there are vast differences, but nevertheless there is a portion of the society who has always been of the opinion that the military should solve their problems when they are not able to with democracy.  So,  when you see the type of guys went on the streets it would have caused quite a blood bath.

An interesting statement from a columnist though. "Neither what ended the coup was the people who went on the streets,  nor the people who went on the streets were concerned with defending the democracy".

 

[DaveP]

To me it's an Islamic revolution without the name.

+1
DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

To me it's an Islamic revolution without the name.

+1
DaveP

Turkey has been wrestling with secular vs theocratic governance for years (longer?). Turkey was a supporter of the short lived muslim brotherhood (Morsi) government in Egypt. 

As I feared this has given Erdogan carte blanch to consolidate his power and squash dissent across the country. It is not much of a stretch for conspiracy theorists to call this a faux coup attempt, but coups are not that rare in the region, or that nation's history. Outcome would have been different if Erdogan was killed, while coup could have still failed.

Erdogan had enough public support that the poorly executed coup attempt faltered.  Some of this may be because Turkey is relatively wealthy nation and citizens probably resisted upsetting the economy.

The recent apology to russia for the downed pilot, and restoration of relations with Israel are interesting.

Next question to ponder is how will this impact Turkey's desire to join the EU? .

JR 

 

[zamproject]

Next question to ponder is how will this impact Turkey's desire to join the EU? .

Hi John

Human right was already a problem before the coup at EU/turkey negotiations
I don't think the new situation help this topic...

What is sure is if Turkish parliament vote restoration of death sentence, there is no question anymore.

As a side note,  if turkey restore death sentence it's for sure to eliminate the "leaders" behind this coup, which mean the potential new law will be retroactive, it's again the basic of democracy, human and civil right.

Best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

What is sure is if Turkish parliament vote restoration of death sentence, there is no question anymore.

As a side note,  if turkey restore death sentence it's for sure to eliminate the "leaders" behind this coup, which mean the potential new law will be retroactive, it's again the basic of democracy, human and civil right.

Best
Zam

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws) and Article 1, Section 10 (with respect to state laws).

JR

 

[zamproject]

Yes, same in France, directly from 1789 heritage and "declaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen"
As in all EU, whatever constitutional or law form it is, depending of country

Best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

Erdogan declared martial law for 90 days.  :-[

JR

 

[Andy Peters]

I do not support  coups and I am not a Gulen sympathiser. I am not even sure if he is behind this all. He may well be. I don't know.

But what I know is that with this stupid coup attempt they  pretty much gave Erdogan a blank cheque.

An old friend (literally the girl next door when we were growing up) is Turkish (her parents came here before she and her sister were born), and she follows Turkish politics quite closely.

Her comment after this ended was, "if you're going to shoot the king, make sure you kill him."

 

[zamproject]

Erdogan declared martial law for 90 days.

JR

mmm...
Are you sure you don't mix up with "state emergency"
Here, after Nice, we have it extended for 6 month...
It "just" mean more cops, and more army in the street, extended investigation rules, and special conditions to arrest ppl.
Martial law is kind different to me, like cops arrest you, torture you, of course you say "yes" whatever happened, and it ends with a bullet in your head without any trial.

Best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes my mistake, "State of emergency" , one step below "martial law", and violence would have to escalate from here to justify "Martial Law".

JR

@andy... yup they didn't kill the king, but appear to have tried.  :-[

 

[[silent:arts]]

In addition he wants to suspend European human rights convention.