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At least it's something other to look at...Thanks!

I wish my diploma and 28 years in my trade was more useful.....

Let's just say I'm definitely thankful for the  subsidy I get on my health insurance every month as bad as I feel about using it.....

 
scott2000 said:
I wish my diploma and 28 years in my trade was more useful.....

I'm sure your diploma and trade experience is super useful for what you do, though. I'd trust pretty much anyone on this thread to give me sound advice about a sound device.

It's not like any of us here are experts on any of this stuff. Which frankly is why it's so weird to see so much discussion about politics here. I have no idea how likely any of those "ifs" are in that second-to-last paragraph of mine, and the people who do this for a living are making a lot of educated guesses. Most of the people on this thread are just making guesses about stuff. I'm just linking to some quick numbers I found going by the first google search I could find that looked like an in-depth article from a relatively centrist source. I probably should have said that in my previous post, but I was just taking a 15 minute break from studying.
 
Thanks!

I was being serious about the info. It's nice to see actual data. I was looking at some articles from years ago about the same issues and all I could find was a feeling that there are too many variables to take into consideration so it shouldn't be talked about or tried to be put into actual numbers.....

like this...lol

"Instead, the CBO made a series of more general findings. Among them:

*  State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs.

*  The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions.

*  The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants.

To us, that's a more appropriate and tempered analysis."
 
midwayfair said:
I'm sure your diploma and trade experience is super useful for what you do, though. I'd trust pretty much anyone on this thread to give me sound advice about a sound device.

It's not like any of us here are experts on any of this stuff. Which frankly is why it's so weird to see so much discussion about politics here. I have no idea how likely any of those "ifs" are in that second-to-last paragraph of mine, and the people who do this for a living are making a lot of educated guesses. Most of the people on this thread are just making guesses about stuff. I'm just linking to some quick numbers I found going by the first google search I could find that looked like an in-depth article from a relatively centrist source. I probably should have said that in my previous post, but I was just taking a 15 minute break from studying.
Good luck with your studies...

I found it amusing that your link considers "North Korea Times", "China Daily", and "China Global Television Network" are all on the least biased list. I guess they don't track on republican/democrat metrics, just wildly anti-American.  ::)

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Good luck with your studies...

I found it amusing that your link considers "North Korea Times", "China Daily", and "China Global Television Network" are all on the least biased list. I guess they don't track on republican/democrat metrics, just wildly anti-American.  ::)

JR

Do you mean the media bias site?

They explain and publish their methods: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/

Feel free to use all your knowledge of statistics to analyze their published methods and explain what they're doing wrong because you found some publications on their least biased list that you are absolutely certain, based on the name and not your experience reading or analyzing them, are highly biased. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

EDIT: How did you even pull those out of that list? There must be two hundred or more sources on the "least biased" page. Even if they were wrong about three of them, that would be a less than 2% error rate.

Here, this will give you a summary of valid complaints:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

Offer your own source for evaluating the bias of a website news source. Be constructive. I offered sources for my contributions.
 
That is actually pretty interesting......

I can see it can get a bit hairy when  a centrist least biased source like the Statesville Record and Landmark publishes an analysis piece from a Washington Post reporter.....which I guess is left center a bit......

But it would be a pretty neat exercise to go through and see where the site falls in with my opinions regardless....

One more thing I noticed is their Fact checking sites....... I'm not 100% sure I agree with there not being any bias related to them from some of my experience in the past...........
Still cool site though......
 
midwayfair said:
Do you mean the media bias site?

They explain and publish their methods: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/

Feel free to use all your knowledge of statistics to analyze their published methods and explain what they're doing wrong because you found some publications on their least biased list that you are absolutely certain, based on the name and not your experience reading or analyzing them, are highly biased. I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

EDIT: How did you even pull those out of that list? There must be two hundred or more sources on the "least biased" page. Even if they were wrong about three of them, that would be a less than 2% error rate.

Here, this will give you a summary of valid complaints:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

Offer your own source for evaluating the bias of a website news source. Be constructive. I offered sources for my contributions.
I routinely advise people to not take my word for anything.  8)

One thing I've learned in 7 decades is trust almost nobody (well trust but verify). Back in the late 70s for one year I tripled up my daily newspapers. For one full year I read the NYT, WSJ, and Washington Post every day to compare their different editorial coverage of the same stories. After that year I dropped NYT and Wash Post.  I am not smart enough to give them absolute rankings but agree NYT and Wash Post are both two full steps to the left of the WSJ, in agreement with your website's ranking of them. 

Lately I find the WSJ getting a little more left of me, but that could be them drifting further left, or me drifting right. Age and experience will do that to one.

China is so fair and balanced they barely allow their citizens access to internet and search engines. North Korea is laughable as a credible source for accurate news.

I am repeating myself but your ranking needs another axis... L/R on one axis and pro/anti US the other axis.

JR

PS: For several years I watched a cable news program (Link TV) that rebroadcast news programs originating from middle east countries. Some required translation into english but others were originally broadcast in english language, for obvious reasons (spin). It was informative to hear their version of world events, and it gave good insight into ME geopolitics. Always interesting to hear anti-American world leaders address their own public... they rarely chant "Death to America" in english at the UN, while Chavez came close. At home their speeches can be decidedly harsher toward the evil empire (US).

PPS: Decades earlier (60s) as a young puke I strung up a short wave radio antenna and listened to international news programs.  The versions of international news broadcast by Radio Moscow, and Radio Havana, Cuba (all in english language) had a decided anti-American spin. I'm sure the Voice of America was running the same playbook with foreign language broadcasts into their countries putting our own spin on the world news.  It's what they do, and we do... While we have laws against many things they do.

 
JohnRoberts said:
China is so fair and balanced

"China won't attack Chinese people. We are willing to use the greatest sincerity and expend the greatest hard work to strive for the prospect of peaceful reunification," Xi said.

"We do not promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option to use all necessary measures" to achieve this goal and prevent Taiwan independence, he added."

Sounds pretty balanced...... Got the whole yin and yang thing going on..... even the title.... :-\

And we just passed some kind of law saying we'll step in if something happens??? And did something with an embassy there too?? Taiwan?

China's Xi threatens Taiwan with force but also seeks peaceful 'reunification'

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-s-xi-threatens-taiwan-force-also-seeks-peaceful-reunification-n953651

Sorry for the off topic....
 
UK media bias:
I have noticed the subtlety used by the BBC and other sources used against Trump.  They report every attack on him whether true or not by using quotation marks, for example Stormy Daniels stuff, then they always use the most unflattering picture they can find.

They could balance this by running articles comparing him against JFK who was a serial womanizer or Clinton or even Roosevelt but they don't.  They allow the younger generation to believe these others are as godlike democrats, but older people know this is not the truth, in fact they are all flawed men, Trump included.

DaveP
 
@DaveP
That bias is so obvious, yet contaproductive and totally unworthy of BBC or other "serious" media. I think it helps Trump a lot (undeliberatly or not) since we all
know (Trump certainly does) that bad PR is good PR.

And that misguided bias doesn´t make Trumps policy any better or justifies anything, btw.

@scott2000
China is a system of extreme injustice and inhumanity.

 
JohnRoberts said:
Good luck with your studies...

I found it amusing that your link considers "North Korea Times", "China Daily", and "China Global Television Network" are all on the least biased list. I guess they don't track on republican/democrat metrics, just wildly anti-American.  ::)

JR

See, John. That's the crux of the problem with the US of A. Nobody KNOWS anything, but they all react to triggers like "socialism", "communism", or, in this case, "Chinese".

These Chinese media aren't "wildly anti-American". They're quite moderate. They are wildly anti-Chinese, when it comes to reporting about Chinese matters. Some things won't be reported, others will be heavily skewed. But I think we could say that about most media and certainly about most US media.

The press ins't there to report objectively. The press is there to make money. So they'll please their advertisers and they'll please politicians, or they might not get an interview next time.

Most of that comes from the two party system in the USA. Violence and dispute is always worse when there are only two parties in the conflict. That's been found out by scientists a long time ago. And the research didn't start out in politics, it started out in sports. Most popular sports have two teams. And some of those are violent. Once there are several teams, violence disappears. No violence in athletics or even dirt biking. But lots of violence in football, soccer...

Of course, China is a one-party system. That's even worse. And that kind of violence erupts only once every century or so.
 
cyrano said:
See, John. That's the crux of the problem with the US of A. Nobody KNOWS anything, but they all react to triggers like "socialism", "communism", or, in this case, "Chinese".

I'm unclear about the socialism trigger? Are you speaking of the latest polls showing socialism favorable to capitalism to some voters??

L´Andratté said:
@scott2000
China is a system of extreme injustice and inhumanity.

I really haven't paid much attention until recently. The stories about the underground labor camps etc..... I just don't like all of the military exercises in recent times and we have been somewhat active in this area of concern afaik...
 
cyrano said:
See, John. That's the crux of the problem with the US of A. Nobody KNOWS anything, but they all react to triggers like "socialism", "communism", or, in this case, "Chinese".
An ill informed electorate is always a problem, and worse when they don't really want to know.

Is "socialism" a trigger word for the citizens of Venezuela who have gone from one of the wealthiest nations in South America to one of the poorest, thanks to a government nationalizing major industries and sucking them dry. Despite massive oil reserves Venezuela is pumping a fraction of former oil capacity due to mismanagement. Likewise how is socialism doing for the Cubans? They have equality there, everybody is poor.

There are centuries of historical evidence about the failures and deaths attributed to communism.

How much time have you spent in China (admittedly I only went to mainland China once for business, but I have studied China for decades) ?  The anti-China sentiment used to be stronger a couple decades ago when they first took over the mantle from Japan as poster boy for winning US manufacturing jobs with lower prices. These days consumers barely notice, while it didn't stop them from buying the cheaper products even back decades ago.  I have even heard religious criticisms of China for not being "christian" whatever that means.

I have watched China closely since they got Hong Kong back from the British (when 100 year lease expired), to see if they can pull off the authoritarian central government managed economy that several large communist nations have tried and failed to do successfully. China is trying to capture the magic of HK's wealth creating capitalism, while maintaining an authoritarian communist government. Of course communism and capitalism are ultimately inconsistent, but the authoritarian Chinese government has created a great deal of wealth so far with this hybrid approach, and this new wealth is required to keep the citizens getting fatter, happier, and quiet. 

Of course China is no longer an "undeveloped nation" so does not deserve special treatment in trade (awarded most favored nation status decades ago to help them grow their economy). The systematic disrespect for intellectual property will not be tolerated by world trading partners much longer (google Huawei).

Human rights does not get much ink but China has their own muslim issues (google Chinese uighars).
These Chinese media aren't "wildly anti-American". They're quite moderate. They are wildly anti-Chinese, when it comes to reporting about Chinese matters. Some things won't be reported, others will be heavily skewed. But I think we could say that about most media and certainly about most US media.
I prefer to get my news without government censorship, or self-censorship to avoid confrontation with oppressive authoritarian government.
The press ins't there to report objectively. The press is there to make money. So they'll please their advertisers and they'll please politicians, or they might not get an interview next time.

Most of that comes from the two party system in the USA. Violence and dispute is always worse when there are only two parties in the conflict. That's been found out by scientists a long time ago. And the research didn't start out in politics, it started out in sports. Most popular sports have two teams. And some of those are violent. Once there are several teams, violence disappears. No violence in athletics or even dirt biking. But lots of violence in football, soccer...
That is interesting theory...  Back before my right knee failed me I still played pick-up basketball one night a week well into my 60s. We saw almost zero violence except for the isolated bad apple, who would probably start a fight at the supermarket  ::) (and the occasional knucklehead hopped up on steroids to bulk up muscle mass). 
Of course, China is a one-party system. That's even worse. And that kind of violence erupts only once every century or so.
How many parties are there in most communist nations?

JR

PS: I apologize to forum, even I get weary of these repetitive posts.
 
scott2000 said:
I'm unclear about the socialism trigger? Are you speaking of the latest polls showing socialism favorable to capitalism to some voters??

I just mean the word.

I was in a discussion much like this one on another forum. Whenever someone wrote "socialism", the discussion ended up in raging. When the term 'pro-social" was used, nothing out of the oridinary happened.
 
cyrano said:
I just mean the word.

I was in a discussion much like this one on another forum. Whenever someone wrote "socialism", the discussion ended up in raging. When the term 'pro-social" was used, nothing out of the oridinary happened.
Words have meaning... Some people actually know what those words mean and their history.  Many young people don't know or have been misinformed, including some new young legislators. While some older legislators selling the same schemes do know it all and choose to ignore or dissemble when asked to answer difficult questions (like how to pay for it).

Ignorance is forgivable, anybody could love the promise of socialism. It is the legislators who know all about the system's short comings and history of serial failures but still sell the promise to low information voters, who don't deserve any sympathy.

Does this mean I am "triggered" by the mere mention of that word? I do get angry about political deception surrounding that and more.  Look at how many young adults have their future plans constrained by heavy student loan debt, this also promised to make their future better.  :eek:

There is no free lunch and buyer beware.  There is a reason caveat emptor is latin, it is a very old concept.

JR 


 
JohnRoberts said:
An ill informed electorate is always a problem, and worse when they don't really want to know.

Is "socialism" a trigger word for the citizens of Venezuela who have gone from one of the wealthiest nations in South America to one of the poorest, thanks to a government nationalizing major industries and sucking them dry. Despite massive oil reserves Venezuela is pumping a fraction of former oil capacity due to mismanagement. Likewise how is socialism doing for the Cubans? They have equality there, everybody is poor.

Strangely, the health of the Cubans is better than the health of the US population. And that despite having had trouble importing some medicine. Also, inequality is far smaller than in the USA.

Venezuela is in such bad state because the hawks in the US govt always meddled in the politics of that country. Just like every other country in the rest of the world. Even my country. Lookup "Westland New Post" and "Gladio" if you care.

In case you haven't noticed, most modern nations try to stay out of the politics of other nations.

There are centuries of historical evidence about the failures and deaths attributed to communism.

Yes, there are. But they're not because of communism itself, but of what became of nations that tried to implement it. And then the question is "How much foreign meddling was involved?"

How much time have you spent in China (admittedly I only went to mainland China once for business, but I have studied China for decades) ?

So you can only have an opinion on a country you have visited?

I've never been to China. But I've worked in Korea, Japan and Saudi-Arabia. Does that qualify me to have an opinion?

The anti-China sentiment used to be stronger a couple decades ago when they first took over the mantle from Japan as poster boy for winning US manufacturing jobs with lower prices.

Obviously, you're talking about the anti-China sentiment in the USA. There never was one in Europe, even when some countries in Asia took over production from European countries.

Of course, it is far better to have that kind of sentiment, so your own companies can sell you stuff "made in the USA", that comes from Mexico, China, Korea or Japan?

These days consumers barely notice, while it didn't stop them from buying the cheaper products even back decades ago.  I have even heard religious criticisms of China for not being "christian" whatever that means.

I have watched China closely since they got Hong Kong back from the British (when 100 year lease expired), to see if they can pull off the authoritarian central government managed economy that several large communist nations have tried and failed to do successfully. China is trying to capture the magic of HK's wealth creating capitalism, while maintaining an authoritarian communist government. Of course communism and capitalism are ultimately inconsistent, but the authoritarian Chinese government has created a great deal of wealth so far with this hybrid approach, and this new wealth is required to keep the citizens getting fatter, happier, and quiet. 

Of course China is no longer an "undeveloped nation" so does not deserve special treatment in trade (awarded most favored nation status decades ago to help them grow their economy). The systematic disrespect for intellectual property will not be tolerated by world trading partners much longer (google Huawei).

You're blind, John, just like the rest of the USA. In the rest of the world, intellectual property is being rearranged.

I'll give you one example: Elsevier. It's a publisher that got very wealthy from publishing research papers and overcharging both sides (the authors and the readers). A century ago, it was kind of logical you needed to pay to get your paper published. The cost of typesetting, printing, paper, distribution.

These days, nobody wants paper. Other researchers who want to read your paper, need an electronic document. And any researcher can produce a pdf. So there's no need anymore for publishers. Especially since most of this research is funded by the taxpayer.

And that's what the Chinese understand very well. It's impossible to keep a secret in most cases, so why not let everyone share your knowledge? If you don't do that, your knowledge goes to waste.

The entire thing of trademarking and intellectual ownership has eaten itself. In the case of trademarking, this is perfectly obvious. A giant like Apple needs to take the small snackbar that happens to be called "Der Apfel" in Luxemburg to court, because that's what (US) law tells them too.

As a reaction, the EU no longer allows McDo the "Big Mac" trademark, because a lot of people all over the world can see that it is ridiculous. When will all words in our language be held hostage by a trademark company?

It's different for tech design, cause that can be expensive and take a long time. Companies need to be able to make money from their designs.

But there are too many cases of companies patenting stuff they can't design, to prevent their competitors from starting to design it. Again, Apple is a clear example and so is IBM. But there are far worse examples. Like companies that don't design anything. They just own patents. If we let these proceed, pretty soon, every startup will need to pay these TM/patent sharks large sums of money before even thinking about designing anything new.

Human rights does not get much ink but China has their own muslim issues (google Chinese uighars).

Don't get me started on that one. From Muslim persecution to traffic lights that monitor all citizens and also give tickets for crossing while the light is red. The Chinese are doin' it. There's even an example of a well-known Chinese model getting lots of tickets because here face was in an ad on a bus.

One thing they have learned from observing US society, is that people are controlled through their credit rating. So, they've created a social app that scores "bad" words. Talk about Tien-an-men and you credit goes down. Ingenious, isn't it?

Likewise, there's an app that shows bad creditors around you. A good way to make sure people pay.

I think one reason why the general Chinese population takes this kind of mind-control is because their standard of living is still getting better by the minute. Problems will appear once the curve flattens out. I'm also pretty sure the communist party understands that. They seem to understand that environment is a part of the quality of living too.

I prefer to get my news without government censorship, or self-censorship to avoid confrontation with oppressive authoritarian government. That is interesting theory... 

So do I, John. But there's not much chance of us getting that, is there?

I remember, back when the war started in Iraq, National Geographic was showing an awful lot of documentaries about guns, warplanes and warships, just before the news went public. Not a coincidence, I'd think?

Back before my right knee failed me I still played pick-up basketball one night a week well into my 60s. We saw almost zero violence except for the isolated bad apple, who would probably start a fight at the supermarket  ::) (and the occasional knucklehead hopped up on steroids to bulk up muscle mass).  How many parties are there in most communist nations?

Just one. As I said, one party is even worse.

I also wrote before, the US should take a deep look at the lead in everyone's environment. Lead poisoning causes people to go insanely violent in over half of the cases. The violence usually turns up a few decades after the initial poisoning...
 
JohnRoberts said:
Does this mean I am "triggered" by the mere mention of that word?

I'm sorry if it came across like that, John. I don't think you are triggered by it. Nor are post people on this forum, fortunately.

It was an observation about the general population. Something I noticed when talking to Americans. Just like, over here, a lot of problems are being obfuscated by making them a problem between the French speaking and the Flemish speaking part of the country. Slows down everything. Looks a lot like a two-party system. It's a three party system, really, there's also a German speaking part of the country. But they are smart enough to speak all three languages...

I do get angry about political deception surrounding that and more.  Look at how many young adults have their future plans constrained by heavy student loan debt, this also promised to make their future better.  :eek:

That is a severe problem. I'm glad I'm old...

And in a way, it's affecting us too. A lot of the brighter people here "go west", after their almost free education. It's a brain drain we can't keep supporting, especially as we get a lot of US students too.

There is no free lunch and buyer beware.  There is a reason caveat emptor is latin, it is a very old concept.

JR

Yes John, but I feel we need to think about the future. When we were young, jobs were more or less abundant. I've never been out of a job for longer than three weeks. Young people today no longer have that "freedom" to find a job.

And the main cause isn't production moving to China. It's automation.

What are we gonna do in an automated future? Even lawyers and doctors can be replaced by software, these days.
 
cyrano said:
Strangely, the health of the Cubans is better than the health of the US population. And that despite having had trouble importing some medicine. Also, inequality is far smaller than in the USA.
As I answered before you mentioned that, they are "equal" as in ALL POOR.  I know a guy in FL who's parents had their business stolen by the Castro regime.

Micheal Moore touted the cuban healthcare system but chose the US healthcare system when he needed attention. The Cuban government routinely trades doctors and health workers to other nations (like Venezuela) as a form of currency. North Korea actually trades common laborers to other nations, capturing their pay.
Venezuela is in such bad state because the hawks in the US govt always meddled in the politics of that country. Just like every other country in the rest of the world. Even my country. Lookup "Westland New Post" and "Gladio" if you care.
If you actually believe that we are almost finished. Maduro and before him Chavez has gutted the private economy and inflated the currency to record levels. Venezuelan citizens cross borders pursuing scarce healthcare. Maduro has actually turned down US aid, denying his citizens relief.
In case you haven't noticed, most modern nations try to stay out of the politics of other nations.
I want some of what you are smoking. Right now Turkey and Russia are dividing up the space in Syria about to be vacated by the US.
Yes, there are. But they're not because of communism itself, but of what became of nations that tried to implement it. And then the question is "How much foreign meddling was involved?"
So communism is fine just misapplied over the many decades by the central planners. The whole thesis behind that economic system is that government planners can make smarter resource allocation than individuals acting in their self interest.. 
So you can only have an opinion on a country you have visited?
No but you need to separate opinion and heresay from experience and fact.
I've never been to China. But I've worked in Korea, Japan and Saudi-Arabia. Does that qualify me to have an opinion?
So far the evidence is a little sketchy... but that is my subjective take.
Obviously, you're talking about the anti-China sentiment in the USA. There never was one in Europe, even when some countries in Asia took over production from European countries.
Yes, I know. I visited a music store in Berlin last century to investigate how the picky German customers would respond to Chinese made gear.  They bought it hand over fist, apparently low price is an attractive universal product feature. In the US our dealers were fiercely opposed to Chinese manufacturing, while their customers we far less opposed, it was a task to get them to operate in their own apparent self interest. Many didn't and are gone now.
Of course, it is far better to have that kind of sentiment, so your own companies can sell you stuff "made in the USA", that comes from Mexico, China, Korea or Japan?
Not sure I understand what you are saying... perhaps that I am being hypocritical, I hope not.

I tooled up my plastic injection molded part tool in China saving thousands of dollars. I push plastic through the tool in TX, and have PCB assembled in NJ, using Chinese (probably) made components.
You're blind, John, just like the rest of the USA. In the rest of the world, intellectual property is being rearranged.
Yes, I guess I am blinded by my 9 patents, and self interest.  ::) Theft of intellectual property is theft plain and simple.  :mad:
I'll give you one example: Elsevier. It's a publisher that got very wealthy from publishing research papers and overcharging both sides (the authors and the readers). A century ago, it was kind of logical you needed to pay to get your paper published. The cost of typesetting, printing, paper, distribution.

These days, nobody wants paper. Other researchers who want to read your paper, need an electronic document. And any researcher can produce a pdf. So there's no need anymore for publishers. Especially since most of this research is funded by the taxpayer.
straw man....  Electronic duplication of media has dramatically changed that industry.

Music publishing/distribution is perhaps a better example. Even though music can be duplicated almost for free the surviving music merchants are figuring out ways to compensate the creators of new music.
And that's what the Chinese understand very well. It's impossible to keep a secret in most cases, so why not let everyone share your knowledge? If you don't do that, your knowledge goes to waste.
Because it cost money for R&D to develop new IP. If your competitors are allowed to just steal your "property" it gives them a competitive advantage, and makes investment in technology worthless. The likely unintended consequence of abandoning IP rights, is less incentive to create and develop new technology.
The entire thing of trademarking and intellectual ownership has eaten itself. In the case of trademarking, this is perfectly obvious. A giant like Apple needs to take the small snackbar that happens to be called "Der Apfel" in Luxemburg to court, because that's what (US) law tells them too.

As a reaction, the EU no longer allows McDo the "Big Mac" trademark, because a lot of people all over the world can see that it is ridiculous. When will all words in our language be held hostage by a trademark company?

It's different for tech design, cause that can be expensive and take a long time. Companies need to be able to make money from their designs.

But there are too many cases of companies patenting stuff they can't design, to prevent their competitors from starting to design it. Again, Apple is a clear example and so is IBM. But there are far worse examples. Like companies that don't design anything. They just own patents. If we let these proceed, pretty soon, every startup will need to pay these TM/patent sharks large sums of money before even thinking about designing anything new.


Don't get me started on that one. From Muslim persecution to traffic lights that monitor all citizens and also give tickets for crossing while the light is red. The Chinese are doin' it. There's even an example of a well-known Chinese model getting lots of tickets because here face was in an ad on a bus.

One thing they have learned from observing US society, is that people are controlled through their credit rating. So, they've created a social app that scores "bad" words. Talk about Tien-an-men and you credit goes down. Ingenious, isn't it?

Likewise, there's an app that shows bad creditors around you. A good way to make sure people pay.

I think one reason why the general Chinese population takes this kind of mind-control is because their standard of living is still getting better by the minute. Problems will appear once the curve flattens out. I'm also pretty sure the communist party understands that. They seem to understand that environment is a part of the quality of living too.

So do I, John. But there's not much chance of us getting that, is there?

I remember, back when the war started in Iraq, National Geographic was showing an awful lot of documentaries about guns, warplanes and warships, just before the news went public. Not a coincidence, I'd think?

Just one. As I said, one party is even worse.

I also wrote before, the US should take a deep look at the lead in everyone's environment. Lead poisoning causes people to go insanely violent in over half of the cases. The violence usually turns up a few decades after the initial poisoning...
Wow... now I am really sorry I responded to you... you have a lot of issues and rather odd ideas.  I will not re-litigate the last several decades of history but do not eat the yellow paint or yellow snow (or water in Flint, Michigan... Maybe Micheal Moore drank some of that water which could explain a lot).  :eek:

Seriously have a better weekend .

JR
 
It seem disingenuous to use the worst example of something to reduce ad absurdum any particular advocacy for an economic system:  by this same logic, capitalism cannot work because in Somalia, which has completely open markets and no regulation, people rob each other in the streets and are locked in perpetual conflict.  Ergo, capitalism cannot work? 

Are all automobiles  doomed to be called trash because of the Chevy Vega or the AMC Gremlin?  Do we not visit doctors any more because once they bled people with leeches?  Are we not allowed to pick and choose parts of different systems which have proven to work, and use those to inform our choices?

For the record, the number of mainstream politicians in the US advocating for a Venezuelan-style dictatorship numbers exactly zero.
 
Wether Maduro follows his interests in the name of socialism or private economy follows it´s interest in the name of liberalism/capitalism...it´s really the same to me.
The one interest that is not served is that of the people. I mean study history it´s laughable. Karl Marx had the idea to honestly serve that interest, and I think it´s a very good idea, independent of the vocabulary one might assign to it.
Dear reader, you may laugh at this, but...that would deny hope for the masses living in slavery right now.
I´m not saying there´s happiness and wealth in it for everyone. But we could do better than this. Like healthcare for everyone. Not the expensive one, the real basic one. Not that big problem to organize on a global basis for anyone who wants to participate. Why fight the idea of it???

I dispute the ever-better-getting human conditions, I come from a country where a lot of people are so oversaturated they don´t even notice the luxury they live in. They don´t seem so happy. Me, I´m like that myself in a way, too.
The First World is mostly a lonely and depressing place these days, you don´t see too many lighthearted people, only same raveling in selfgrandeur. Maybe some realize that the phenomenological equivalent of our ecological lifestyle is raping our mother, and watching people drown in the sea, you can´t qualitativly get any lower than that.

I´d say as species it´s either get our shit together real quick or kick the bucket real soon. I´m not saying what my bet is. But...
There´s no such thing as society? Let´s start one! ;D
 

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