We really need to start having a serious conversation about this....

[cyrano]

Can you elaborate on what is the aging population problem? I don't want to respond unless I am sure I know what you mean.

Due to good healthcare people live longer. Education makes them have fewer kids.

What used to be easy, like the pension system, was easy because the young were a majority. Lots of young people to pay for the pension and care of a smaller group of elderly.

Today there are more elderly than young people in a lot of western countries. That group is growing. But, due to less kids, there are fewer and fewer people to pay for it.

It's simple math, with no simple way out. Norway has foreseen just that many years ago and invested all profits from oil- and gas-fields into a massive pension fund. Afaik, they're the only nation in the world. All the others act like Ostriches and bury their head in the sand.

There are some aggravating factors, like people with diabetes or cancer, fi, no longer dying fast from it, but requiring expensive treatment and care. And then there's stuff like obesity leading to diabetes etc.

 

[ruffrecords]

Due to good healthcare people live longer. Education makes them have fewer kids.

What used to be easy, like the pension system, was easy because the young were a majority. Lots of young people to pay for the pension and care of a smaller group of elderly.

While it is true there is a greater proportion of the population living to old age, they are not supported by the young. Most people will work from about age 20 to age 60 or 65 so it is not just young people. The older half of this section of society earns considerably more then the 'young' and pays considerably more tax which supports the state pension scheme.Ovberall it is the 'mature' section of society that pays for pensions not the young.

Cheers

Ian

 

[cyrano]

Well, it is clear that African and Middle Eastern countries have the largest fertility rates, the first world has the lowest with South Korea being almost near catastrophe. Latin America, which for years was very fruitful, is mostly below replacement rate, and will probably be near the same birth rates of Europe soon.

While it is true that the most advanced economies have the lowest fertility rates, I wouldn't brag about that as an accomplishment. Some here (and in other places) tend to suggest that the reason for the low fertility rates by the more advanced and civilized citizens of the first world is due to the fact that they are economically prosperous and are much more conscious, cultured, and aware of the world needs, therefore they reproduce less,

The riddle of the male of the species having very reduced sperm counts in western countries isn't solved yet.

whilst those more primitive individuals in the underdeveloped world, who are ignorant and oblivious to the current world and climate catastrophe, keep reproducing without control.

So, climate catastrophe is real after all?

Why do you think people from the "underdeveloped world" are ignorant? They're just as bright or as stupid as we are.

The reason birth rates are so high in some countries is very simple: kids care for their parents in these societies, because there's no pension, there's no care from the government. Wether that's because of war, lack of funds, carelessness or anything else doesn't matter. Their kids are their insurance.

Not having access to birth control doesn't help, of course, but it's not the main reason.

This is of course not the case. While there is of course a cultural element to it, the truth is that the flooding of birth control, the destruction of the family by global institutions, and the normalization of abortion in the most advanced economies, have created the idea that children are disposable and a nuisance, that the worst thing you could do if you are a woman is to be a mother, and if you are a man, to be a father, because you will be destroying the world; besides, children and a family are so passé. Simultaneously, to add a bit more of irony and confusion, while they preach that you shouldn't have children, they use phrases like "What kind of world will we inherit our children?".

If any of that were true, why is the male's sperm count dropping in all western countries?

At the same time, and I have mentioned this before, the African countries which have so much need of many things have also been flooded by birth control and abortion clinics. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation have invested so much resources on directly sending birth control to Africa. Really, is birth control the largest problem in Africa? Should a so-called philanthropic organization focus most of their resources on keeping those Africans from reproducing or are there more pressing issues that should, perhaps, be attended first? My best guess is that these people (who ironically love to scream 'racist' at everyone) prefer the Africans to stop breeding rather than feeding them or providing them with education, medicines, or anything else.

Where did you get that drivel from?

I can assure you Africa hasn't been flooded with birth control, nor abortion clinics. Africa's main problem still is fascism, leading to the death penalty for gay people in one country, war in another, massive corruption in yet another etc.

Jeez, what a negative and ignorant view of Africa. Likely what some might call "bizarre"...

 

[cyrano]

While it is true there is a greater proportion of the population living to old age, they are not supported by the young. Most people will work from about age 20 to age 60 or 65 so it is not just young people. The older half of this section of society earns considerably more then the 'young' and pays considerably more tax which supports the state pension scheme.Ovberall it is the 'mature' section of society that pays for pensions not the young.

Cheers

Ian

Unfortunately, the rich do not pay taxes. And that's only getting worse.

Even if they ask to be taxed higher, most governments simply choose to not hear it. I think our elected were too busy giving some of theirs a 20% pension bonus for all the good they did to society. Strangely, not one of those who got the bonus, needs it in any way.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Unfortunately, the rich do not pay taxes. And that's only getting worse.

Well, here in the much-maligned USofA that is pure malarkey.

Federal income tax analysis:
https://www.ntu.org/foundation/tax-page/who-pays-income-taxes
For states that collect income tax, most have similar progressive rate schedules (though lower percentages), so the payment breakdowns are similar but smaller.

Wealthy people buy more goods and pay more in sales tax as well. And the same goes for property tax (be it on real estate, cars, boats, or other taxable property).

I know that when I was 25 and moved cross country to start my first full-time job after grad school I paid little in taxes. I had a used Honda Civic and modest salary. 29 years later, near the end of of my working career I paid an obscene amount of tax per year, over 10x my entire annual income at my first job in 1992.

And I was not some VP or anything of the sort. Just a senior individual contributor engineer. And my "pension" was entirely voluntary 401k and SEP IRA contributions (with a small amount of employer matching during a few years) plus other taxed investments I made.

Even if they ask to be taxed higher, most governments simply choose to not hear it. I think our elected were too busy giving some of theirs a 20% pension bonus for all the good they did to society. Strangely, not one of those who got the bonus, needs it in any way.

Then why do you seemingly advocate for more and bigger government which 1) becomes unmanageable/corrupt, 2) wastes taxpayer money, and 3) is never satiated with tax revenue?

 

[JohnRoberts]

So much blather, so little time.... pretty much every one of these issues has been well inspected right here over past years, when the topics were timely.

JR

 

[user 37518]

The riddle of the male of the species having very reduced sperm counts in western countries isn't solved yet.



So, climate catastrophe is real after all?

Why do you think people from the "underdeveloped world" are ignorant? They're just as bright or as stupid as we are.

The reason birth rates are so high in some countries is very simple: kids care for their parents in these societies, because there's no pension, there's no care from the government. Wether that's because of war, lack of funds, carelessness or anything else doesn't matter. Their kids are their insurance.

Not having access to birth control doesn't help, of course, but it's not the main reason.



If any of that were true, why is the male's sperm count dropping in all western countries?



Where did you get that drivel from?

I can assure you Africa hasn't been flooded with birth control, nor abortion clinics. Africa's main problem still is fascism, leading to the death penalty for gay people in one country, war in another, massive corruption in yet another etc.

Jeez, what a negative and ignorant view of Africa. Likely what some might call "bizarre"...

You seem to have a problem identifying what is sarcasm and what is not, what is rhetorical, and what is not. I don't think there is a climate catastrophe, and I don't think the Africans are ignorant. Your view is that Education makes people have less children, that was exactly what I was refuting. You didn't seem to get it though. The low sperm count wouldn't be such a problem if birth control and abortion wasn't so predominant.

Also, I don't have a negative view of Africa, I live in the third world, Latin America (do you consider Mexico the 3rd world? 2nd world? whatever, it is not a 1st world country), I am very well used to what some rural regions here in Mexico look like and the problems they face, which is why I laugh at your arguments that anarchism is much better than capitalism; virtue signaling from the Ivory Tower at its best. You still haven't defined what "Europe" means as your location, Spain? Germany? it's easy to complain about how bad capitalism is when you live in "Europe". IMO Africa has even bigger problems than Latin America but many problems are similar, when I talk about Africa I am not referring to South Africa or the richer countries, I am referring to countries like Nigeria, for instance, which has the largest fertility rate in the world and very serious issues regarding health and poverty.

I've witnessed how institutions like the Soros foundation have pushed Planned Parenthood fiercely into Latin America, they start by pushing the governments to allow abortion in the first weeks, and they end by completely legalizing it, that is the textbook MO, they have done it here in Mexico, Argentina, and many other countries. They are trying to do it in the Dominican Republic, but somehow they are still pushing back. Trust me, if they are doing it in Latam, they are doing it in Africa.

This is the fertility rate in Mexico from 1960 till today, do you really think that the reduction is just due to Education and lower sperm count? wake up

 

[cyrano]

You seem to have a problem identifying what is sarcasm and what is not, what is rhetorical, and what is not. I don't think there is a climate catastrophe, and I don't think the Africans are ignorant. Your view is that Education makes people have less children, that was exactly what I was refuting. You didn't seem to get it though. The low sperm count wouldn't be such a problem if birth control and abortion wasn't so predominant.

Also, I don't have a negative view of Africa, I live in the third world, Latin America (do you consider Mexico the 3rd world? 2nd world? whatever, it is not a 1st world country), I am very well used to what some rural regions here in Mexico look like and the problems they face, which is why I laugh at your arguments that anarchism is much better than capitalism; virtue signaling from the Ivory Tower at its best. You still haven't defined what "Europe" means as your location, Spain? Germany? it's easy to complain about how bad capitalism is when you live in "Europe". IMO Africa has even bigger problems than Latin America but many problems are similar, when I talk about Africa I am not referring to South Africa or the richer countries, I am referring to countries like Nigeria, for instance, which has the largest fertility rate in the world and very serious issues regarding health and poverty.

Yet the only factor scientifically determined factor is between education and lowering birth rates. All the other observations come with "in this case" as a statement from the authors.

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.e...-fertility-the-role-of-marriage-and-education
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-...rd-share-of-new-mothers-are-college-educated/
https://www.drake.edu/media/departmentsoffices/dussj/2020documents/Cornett DUSSJ 2020.pdf
Conclusion

There is a strong link between increased levels of education for females and lower fertility rates. That is, the higher the level of a woman’s educational attainment, the fewer number of children she is likely to bear, and this effect is shown in countries and cultures around the world. The data support that this relationship is causal (Alam et al. 2003), but there are many theories as to the mechanisms through which education may reduce fertility (Basu 2002).

I've witnessed how institutions like the Soros foundation have pushed Planned Parenthood fiercely into Latin America, they start by pushing the governments to allow abortion in the first weeks, and they end by completely legalizing it, that is the textbook MO, they have done it here in Mexico, Argentina, and many other countries. They are trying to do it in the Dominican Republic, but somehow they are still pushing back. Trust me, if they are doing it in Latam, they are doing it in Africa.

Just tell us you passionately hate abortion...

This is the fertility rate in Mexico from 1960 till today, do you really think that the reduction is just due to Education and lower sperm count? wake up

View attachment 108596

I know education is the only persistent factor. Upenn sees marriage too. That's news to me.

What you seem to miss, is that a clear correlation between dropping sperm count and anything else hasn't been found. The press has blamed all kinds of stuff, from sitting too long, over micro-plastics to drugs, but none of these are more than a coincidence.

We know what causes less women to get pregnant. We have no clue why the male sperm count is dropping in the west.

 

[user 37518]

I know education is the only persistent factor. Upenn sees marriage too. That's news to me.

What you seem to miss, is that a clear correlation between dropping sperm count and anything else hasn't been found. The press has blamed all kinds of stuff, from sitting too long, over micro-plastics to drugs, but none of these are more than a coincidence.

We know what causes less women to get pregnant. We have no clue why the male sperm count is dropping in the west.

Yes, I hate abortion, just like I hate murder. But that doesn't make any difference to the fact that the UN, and many institutions are pushing for legalization of abortion in Latin America, there is no question about it, I invite you to do a search, it is not me telling it, it is not a conspiracy theory, they've been doing it for decades.

Here is one, from the US government site (This is the Kissinger Report):

In order to assist the development of major countries and to maximize progress toward population stability, primary emphasis would be placed on the largest and fastest growing developing countries where the imbalance between growing numbers and development potential most seriously risks instability, unrest, and international tensions. These countries are: India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria, Mexico, Indonesia, Brazil, The Philippines, Thailand, Egypt, Turkey, Ethiopia, and Colombia. Out of a total 73.3 million worldwide average increase in population from 1970-75 these countries contributed 34.3 million or 47%. This group of priority countries includes some with virtually no government interest in family planning and others with active government family planning programs which require and would welcome enlarged technical and financial assistance. These countries should be given the highest priority within AID's population program in terms of resource allocations and/or leadership efforts to encourage action by other donors and organizations.

https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pcaab500.pdf

Regarding the AID program:

In the 8 years since the inception of the population program of the United Sates Agency for International Development (AID) in 1965, the program has provided approximately $500 million for support of population and family planning projects and programs in developing countries. This is more than 1/2 of all the international population program assistance provided from all sources during those years. When the sum is divided by the target population of 2 billion people, $125 million per year equals 6 cents per capita, or 30 cents per woman of reproductive age. The money is used to develop: 1) demographic and social data, 2) population policy, 3) fertility control research, 4) family planning services, 5) information, education, and communications systems, and 6) manpower and supportive institutions. It is postulated that with continued strong support from the United States and increasing contributions from other countries, it should be possible for the world community to move most of the way toward making family planning information and the most effective and acceptable means of fertility control fully available to all persons of reproductive age in the developing world during the current decade.

United States Agency for International Development (USAID) contributions to international population programs - PubMed

BTW thats $500 million of 1960-1970s money....

So I am just paranoid with 'bizzare ideas', Africa is not being flooded with birth control as you said before, probably kids sitting for too long, or people getting educated, absolutely no extra factors involved. For crying out loud...

 

[cyrano]

So much blather, so little time.... pretty much every one of these issues has been well inspected right here over past years, when the topics were timely.

JR

You know, John, the essence of science is that no fact is factual enough not to revisit.

You might think Newton's law, as an example, was accepted and well understood. Until scientists discovered there was a very minor discrepancy. Since this discrepancy seemed constant, it was investigated. And Newton's law was amended.

If you're tired of the subject, why not participate?

If the subject seems not timely to you, have you considered your opinion isn't necessarily equal to others?

So, you are saying that the normalization of abortion, contraception, next day pill, has nothing to do with it? it is just education and marriage.

Yes. And I don't even know about marriage. Could be a fluke, or only valid in certain places. Besides, can you define marriage in the sense a Pacific island population sees it? Or an Amazonian tribe?

Of course availability of birth control is a factor too. But don't tell me you're against availability?These are far from the major factor. Even in countries that already had birth control available, education is the major factor.

In the words of my grandfather, "the dummer, the more children they have. I can see that going wrong..." If you reverse that argument, eg, educate them, it directly leads to two good things: Less children and less abortions." We've seen that in China, fi. The CP tried to get births down with cruel laws. And they followed up in a very fascist manner. Didn't do anything. Education did.

The CP is of course very aware of the other population problem lurking just around the corner: an aging population.

And, yes, I hate abortion, just like I hate murder. But that doesn't make any difference to the fact that the UN, and many institutions are pushing for legalization of abortion in Latin America, there is no question about it, I invite you to do a search, it is not me telling it, it is not a conspiracy theory.

That's true, no doubt. Do you think they have more influence than education?

Besides, abortion is such a small number that it's on the edge as reduction in birth rate. Also, take into account numbers of illegal abortions aren't really known, so a comparison isn't even possible.

Here is one, from the US government site (This is the Kissinger Report):

In order to assist the development of major countries and to maximize progress toward population stability, primary emphasis would be placed on the largest and fastest growing developing countries where the imbalance between growing numbers and development potential most seriously risks instability, unrest, and international tensions. These countries are: India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria, Mexico, Indonesia, Brazil, The Philippines, Thailand, Egypt, Turkey, Ethiopia, and Colombia. Out of a total 73.3 million worldwide average increase in population from 1970-75 these countries contributed 34.3 million or 47%. This group of priority countries includes some with virtually no government interest in family planning and others with active government family planning programs which require and would welcome enlarged technical and financial assistance. These countries should be given the highest priority within AID's population program in terms of resource allocations and/or leadership efforts to encourage action by other donors and organizations.

https://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pcaab500.pdf

Regarding the AID program:

In the 8 years since the inception of the population program of the United Sates Agency for International Development (AID) in 1965, the program has provided approximately $500 million for support of population and family planning projects and programs in developing countries. This is more than 1/2 of all the international population program assistance provided from all sources during those years. When the sum is divided by the target population of 2 billion people, $125 million per year equals 6 cents per capita, or 30 cents per woman of reproductive age. The money is used to develop: 1) demographic and social data, 2) population policy, 3) fertility control research, 4) family planning services, 5) information, education, and communications systems, and 6) manpower and supportive institutions. It is postulated that with continued strong support from the United States and increasing contributions from other countries, it should be possible for the world community to move most of the way toward making family planning information and the most effective and acceptable means of fertility control fully available to all persons of reproductive age in the developing world during the current decade.

United States Agency for International Development (USAID) contributions to international population programs - PubMed


Yeah, nothing to see here, probably kids sitting for too long, and people getting educated, absolutely no extra factors. I am just paranoid with 'bizzare ideas', Africa is not being flooded with birth control as you said before. For crying out loud...

I never stated there are no other factors. Only that education is the MAIN factor. The factor that works in every country, every time again. Are you against education too?

Have you read the Kennedy report? In the conclusion, they spell out the need to indoctrinate (and, yes, that's the exact word used) UN and other officials...

 

[user 37518]

You know, John, the essence of science is that no fact is factual enough not to revisit.

You might think Newton's law, as an example, was accepted and well understood. Until scientists discovered there was a very minor discrepancy. Since this discrepancy seemed constant, it was investigated. And Newton's law was amended.

If you're tired of the subject, why not participate?

If the subject seems not timely to you, have you considered your opinion isn't necessarily equal to others?


Yes. And I don't even know about marriage. Could be a fluke, or only valid in certain places. Besides, can you define marriage in the sense a Pacific island population sees it? Or an Amazonian tribe?

Of course availability of birth control is a factor too. But don't tell me you're against availability?These are far from the major factor. Even in countries that already had birth control available, education is the major factor.

In the words of my grandfather, "the dummer, the more children they have. I can see that going wrong..." If you reverse that argument, eg, educate them, it directly leads to two good things: Less children and less abortions." We've seen that in China, fi. The CP tried to get births down with cruel laws. And they followed up in a very fascist manner. Didn't do anything. Education did.

The CP is of course very aware of the other population problem lurking just around the corner: an aging population.



That's true, no doubt. Do you think they have more influence than education?

Besides, abortion is such a small number that it's on the edge as reduction in birth rate. Also, take into account numbers of illegal abortions aren't really known, so a comparison isn't even possible.



I never stated there are no other factors. Only that education is the MAIN factor. The factor that works in every country, every time again. Are you against education too?

Have you read the Kennedy report? In the conclusion, they spell out the need to indoctrinate (and, yes, that's the exact word used) UN and other officials...

No education is not the Main factor, the main factor is the gazillion dolars they spend in pushing birth control and abortion, it's there un blac and white, I am not making it up. Its the almost 4 billion dollars in todays money they spent in pushing that agenda in only 8 years back in the sixties and seventies. Much more has been spent since then. Stop lying to yourself.

 

[cyrano]

No education is not the Main factor, the main factor is the gazillion dolars they spend in pushing birth control and abortion, it's there un blac and white, I am not making it up. Its the almost 4 billion dollars in todays money they spent in pushing that agenda in only 8 years back in the sixties and seventies. Much more has been spent since then. Stop lying to yourself.

Spoken as a true believer...

Birth control is bad. And it's the only factor in declining birth rates. Pretty stout theory. Without a shred of evidence, obviously.

 

[JohnRoberts]

You know, John, the essence of science is that no fact is factual enough not to revisit.

yup

You might think Newton's law, as an example, was accepted and well understood.

nope

Until scientists discovered there was a very minor discrepancy. Since this discrepancy seemed constant, it was investigated. And Newton's law was amended.

If you're tired of the subject, why not participate?

huh?

If the subject seems not timely to you, have you considered your opinion isn't necessarily equal to others?

no but I grow wearing of wasting time repeating myself over and over again and again ad infinatum

Yes. And I don't even know about marriage. Could be a fluke, or only valid in certain places. Besides, can you define marriage in the sense a Pacific island population sees it? Or an Amazonian tribe?

I don't have first hand experience with marriage

Of course availability of birth control is a factor too. But don't tell me you're against availability?These are far from the major factor. Even in countries that already had birth control available, education is the major factor.

I didn't

In the words of my grandfather, "the dummer, the more children they have. I can see that going wrong..." If you reverse that argument, eg, educate them, it directly leads to two good things: Less children and less abortions." We've seen that in China, fi. The CP tried to get births down with cruel laws. And they followed up in a very fascist manner. Didn't do anything. Education did.

The CP is of course very aware of the other population problem lurking just around the corner: an aging population.

a typical flaw of central planning vs free will.

That's true, no doubt. Do you think they have more influence than education?

Besides, abortion is such a small number that it's on the edge as reduction in birth rate. Also, take into account numbers of illegal abortions aren't really known, so a comparison isn't even possible.



I never stated there are no other factors. Only that education is the MAIN factor. The factor that works in every country, every time again. Are you against education too?

don't forget educating the educators...

Have you read the Kennedy report? In the conclusion, they spell out the need to indoctrinate (and, yes, that's the exact word used) UN and other officials...

I'm shocked.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

You know, John, the essence of science is that no fact is factual enough not to revisit.

You might think Newton's law, as an example, was accepted and well understood. Until scientists discovered there was a very minor discrepancy. Since this discrepancy seemed constant, it was investigated. And Newton's law was amended.

Yet for 90%+ of real world engineering, Newton's Laws are plenty good enough. Can you say the same about climate theories?

Yes. And I don't even know about marriage. Could be a fluke, or only valid in certain places. Besides, can you define marriage in the sense a Pacific island population sees it? Or an Amazonian tribe?

First, the societies which built the most successful systems define marriage in very similar ways.

Second, the tribes of Amazonia are not the ones producing the population growth you're concerned with, so their cultural norms aren't an issue (see first point).

Third, the one Pacific Island nation on the list is The Philippines. My wife is Filipino as are all of my in-laws. I've been there 8 times. You might notice that The Philippines is almost 90% Christian and their definition of marriage is the same as ours.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Philippines

We've seen that in China, fi. The CP tried to get births down with cruel laws. And they followed up in a very fascist manner. Didn't do anything.

Yes, it did. The strict one child policy skewed gender demographics badly (male heirs preferred over daughters) and population growth was reversed. What do you mean by "didn't do anything?"

Education did.

Given the other large factors in play there (end of one-child policy, rapid growth in industrial/commercial/manufacturing, massive migration into cities, etc.), I'm not sure the importance of education could be identified as a factor there.

The CP is of course very aware of the other population problem lurking just around the corner: an aging population.

Because of their artificial manipulation of growth. There will also be a huge population of unmarried males.

 

[user 37518]

Spoken as a true believer...

Birth control is bad. And it's the only factor in declining birth rates. Pretty stout theory. Without a shred of evidence, obviously.

What do you mean without a shred of evidence? You didn't read my post? I just showed you official documents of population control programs who have been investing billions (trillions by now) since the 1960s trying to control the world population. And you say, well the jury is still out? We really don't know...

Now, you say education is one of the main contributors to reducing population, in a sense, you are right, but it is not education but indoctrination. Like I said, what the AID program states is what I believe are the causes of population reduction:

1) demographic and social data, 2) population policy, 3) fertility control research, 4) family planning services, 5) information, education, and communications systems, and 6) manpower and supportive institutions.

Combined with

making family planning information [there is your education] and the most effective and acceptable means of fertility control fully available to all persons of reproductive age in the developing world during the current decade.

That, in a nutshell is the reason of the declining population

Look, I showed you a graph of the population reduction in Mexico. There is a document from Henry Kissinger from the 70s saying that they should explicitly go into the developing world (Mexico mentioned by name) to reduce the population, and coincidentally, you can clearly see in the graph that after the 70s the population reduces from almost 7 children per woman to 1.90 today, and you say there is no correlation? All education? That I am speaking without a shred of evidence? Is that the same attitude you take for the supposedly climate catastrophe?

 

[JohnRoberts]

I tried to avoid repeating old information but poverty and poor adolescent survival rates influenced poor families to have extra JIC children. As wealth and medical care improved the benefit from having extra kids diminished.

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

No education is not the Main factor, the main factor is the gazillion dolars they spend in pushing birth control and abortion, it's there un blac and white, I am not making it up. Its the almost 4 billion dollars in todays money they spent in pushing that agenda in only 8 years back in the sixties and seventies. Much more has been spent since then. Stop lying to yourself.

The optional use of birth control and abortion may or may not be the main factor. I certainly wouldn’t think so, but what do I know? Regardless, it’s the way you present it, conspiracy-like, is what makes me think what you write is so bizarre.

Could it be the simple choice to not have kids or to have less kids is the main factor? Why so many people have chose that gives us a magnifying glass for closer inspection. Of course there are many massive-outliers, like China’s extremely-forced policies.

 

[user 37518]

The optional use of birth control and abortion may or may not be the main factor. I certainly wouldn’t think so, but what do I know? Regardless, it’s the way you present it, conspiracy-like, is what makes me think what you write is so bizarre.

Could be it be the simple choice to not have kids or to have less kids is the main factor? Why so many people have chose that gives us a magnifying glass for closer inspection. Of course there are many massive-outliners, like China’s extremely-forced policies.

What???? Read the Kissinger report I linked. it is from the government's website, it has "Confidential" written all over it, it was declassified afterwards. That is the definition of a conspiracy.

How would you like me to show the results in a non-conspiracy manner?

BTW For not knowing about the topic (your words), you keep talking like you do and add nothing to the conversation, it just seems that you have to disagree whether the other is right or not. It is so ironic, that you yourself claim not to know about this and proceed to judge the other like you do or by the way the other makes you feel in the way he presents his arguments, because you think it is very conspiracy-like (whatever that means). This can't be serious.

 

[Recording Engineer]

I’m not disagreeing with you or anyone else. I don’t know enough to disagree. I’m just letting you know how what you write on the subject comes across to me and probably many others. You don’t have to care, but I can still state that, even if you don’t want to hear it. It’s fine to ignore me. So what. Who am I or you? It doesn’t matter at all.

Honestly, it seems you’re coming at it with an against personal birth control and abortion stance and those pushing for those options to be available to anyone in the world. So be it, but just state it plainly.

 

[Matador]

BTW For not knowing about the topic (your words), you keep talking like you do and add nothing to the conversation

This is such an awesome sentence. I feel it should be added to the Brewery byline.

Kick back, relax, and shoot the breeze ~ we don't really know about these topics, but we'll keep talking like we do, adding nothing to the conversation. Warning: personal attacks prohibited and might be strictly moderated.