WTF Florida?

[Recording Engineer]

That is some disingenuous, disrespectful bullsh*t. What a bunch of hogwash.

Truly sad and preposterous it has to actually be said and people still don’t care.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

And why do we think, on that day of all days, Officer Brian Sicknick had 2 strokes? Just sheer coincidence that it happened the day he was fighting off an angry mob, right? Just like Fanone (who lived) coincidentally had a heart attack while fighting off that same angry mob?

Job stress can exacerbate pre-existing conditions. That doesn't make it the cause. My own grandfather was a volunteer fireman in his small town. He had already had two heart attacks in the 1950s, but as he arrived at a house fire in October of 1964 he had his third and it killed him. No doubt the adrenaline and stress of that event contributed, but it wasn't what killed him.

That is some disingenuous, disrespectful bullsh*t. What a bunch of hogwash.

It isn't dangerous, disrespectful, or "heartless" to point out the truth, which, again, does not care about your feelings. Use your brain.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Strokes do not just happen because the body decides to stroke out.

Sadly they kind of just do...

There are two main causes of stroke: a blocked artery (ischemic stroke) or leaking or bursting of a blood vessel (hemorrhagic stroke). Some people may have only a temporary disruption of blood flow to the brain, known as a transient ischemic attack (TIA), that doesn't cause lasting symptoms.

Ischemic strokes are far more common and caused by fatty deposits that cause clots in blood vessels. Hemorrhagic strokes can be precipitated by uncontrolled high blood pressure and/or over treatment with blood thinners.

Sicknick had what the medical examiner called acute brainstem and cerebellar infarcts due to acute basilar artery thrombosis – a specific type of blood clot in the brain.

There continues to be debate about whether these strokes were caused by rioters, or natural. Sicknick was sprayed in the face with bear spray roughly 8 hours before the strokes occured. He was not struck in the head as some news reports falsely claimed. If the elevated stress of responding to this event was the direct cause I would expect more stroke victims.

Phillips, a computer programmer who founded a social media site for Trump supporters died from stroke (I didn't see autopsy information so will ASSume it was ischemic).

JR

PS: As an old fart, I pay attention to stroke pathology

 

[Matador]

To constitute a felonious homicide there must be, in addition to the death of a human being, an unlawful act which proximately caused that death.

The proximate cause of death is that cause which, in natural and continuous sequence, unbroken by any efficient intervening cause, produces the death, and without which the result would not have occurred. It is the efficient cause — the one that necessarily sets in operation the factors that accomplish the death. (CALJIC No. 312, modified.)

If a person unlawfully does an act or unlawfully sets in operation factors which are a proximate cause of another person's death, such conduct of the former constitutes an unlawful homicide even though the unlawful act or the factors set in operation were not the only cause of the death, and although the person killed had been already enfeebled by disease, injury, physical condition or other cause and although it is probable that a person in sound physical condition would not have died as a result of the act or the factors set in operation, and although it is probable that the act or the factors set in operation only hastened the death of the deceased person and that he would have died soon thereafter anyhow from another cause or other causes.

It is Shaw's contention that, in effect, lightning struck Trembley. Shaw asserts that in Trembley's condition he could have had a heart attack at any time. Shaw would discount the pathologist's testimony that Trembley's heart attack was caused by agitation from the burglary as "mere conjecture and speculation." He concedes that "[t]he state may have shown that it is possible that the actions of the burglars caused Mr. Trembley's death," but he argues that it is the State's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the causal link between the felonious conduct and the death.

Q: "Do you have an opinion as to what precipitated the myocardial infarction that related in Mr. William Trembley's death?"

A: "That the oxygen . . . need of the heart was exceeded by the increased oxygen getting in the blood in the first place. Due to this man with emphysema, ... as well as increased stress levels increasing the adrenalin, and any sort of excess physical movement would have increased the work of the heart and all these factors combined."

In this case, Shaw encountered an 86-year-old man with emphysema who was being treated for high blood pressure. Shaw's felonious conduct emotionally traumatized Trembley, obstructed his breathing, and caused him to physically exert himself in attempting to break free. In Dr. Cooper's opinion, based upon a reasonable medical certainty, the heart attack was caused by the combined stress, lack of oxygen, and physical exertion.

 

[scott2000]

Won't be seeing similar thought in a pharmaceutical trial...lol

 

[hodad]

If the elevated stress of responding to this event was the direct cause I would expect more stroke victims.

Based on what scientific data? Pure malarkey.

 

[user 37518]

Based on what scientific data? Pure malarkey.

Probably the same kind that Pfizer used to promise that vaccines would stop the infection.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Based on what scientific data? Pure malarkey.

Logic.... try it sometime.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Probably the same kind that Pfizer used to promise that vaccines would stop the infection.

To my knowledge this is social media misinformation. Maybe you could post a link documenting that this was "promised" by Pfizer.

"A spokesperson from Pfizer told Full Fact by email: “The primary endpoints of our Covid-19 vaccine study were to evaluate the efficacy of the vaccine candidate in preventing Covid-19 disease in participants who had not been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus before they received the vaccine […]The trials were not designed to evaluate the vaccine’s effectiveness against transmission of SARS-CoV-2.”

The fact that the Covid-19 vaccines did have an impact on transmission, particularly against the earliest variants, was verified with real world data after the vaccines were rolled out. Although the impact of vaccines on transmission has lessened against the Omicron variant, this does not mean that the vaccines impacting transmission was just a “myth” or “assumption”."

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-transmission-test/

 

[user 37518]

To my knowledge this is social media misinformation. Maybe you could post a link documenting that this was "promised" by Pfizer.

"A spokesperson from Pfizer told Full Fact by email: “The primary endpoints of our Covid-19 vaccine study were to evaluate the efficacy of the vaccine candidate in preventing Covid-19 disease in participants who had not been infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus before they received the vaccine […]The trials were not designed to evaluate the vaccine’s effectiveness against transmission of SARS-CoV-2.”

The fact that the Covid-19 vaccines did have an impact on transmission, particularly against the earliest variants, was verified with real world data after the vaccines were rolled out. Although the impact of vaccines on transmission has lessened against the Omicron variant, this does not mean that the vaccines impacting transmission was just a “myth” or “assumption”."

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-transmission-test/

Sorry, not Pfizer, but the actual government of the USA, which is worse, here is more "misinformation":

 

[crazydoc]

These are undated so hard to place in context. Biden was wrong of course - he should have said it's not over, and that if you're vaccinated you're very unlikely to get serious disease or die, not that you won't get it. He and Fauci were talking about the delta variant, prevalent in 2021 and early 2022. The protection afforded by vaccination was still significant, and the transmission of which was still somewhat reduced by vaccination.

This pandemic was a situation unprecedented in a century, and medical science was scrambling to contain it, sometimes flying by the seat of its pants, doing the best it could, and mistakes were made. However, to attribute errors to malevolent intentions on the part of most people who were dealing with this is not true in most cases - just my opinion.

Of course, for anti-vaxxers all bets are off.

 

[hodad]

Logic.... try it sometime.

Admitting you're wrong..try it sometime.

(Also, this isn't primarily a logic issue, so there's that little detail as well.)

 

[Rusan]

I was extremely sick with the Delta variant 3 weeks after being fully vaccinated, which is when the claimed immunity is supposed to be at its peak.

My employer tried to mandate the vaccine, with the penalty for non-compliance being a fine deducted from our paychecks. Thankfully, just a few days afterward the courts stepped in and placed a stay on all existing mandates pending litigation, which concluded that such mandates are illegal.

However, not one to accept defeat, my employer then announced they'd be paying a much smaller percentage of our shared health insurance premium unless we were vaccinated, which would've amounted to a monetary loss I simply couldn't afford. So I got the vaccine, and then got COVID 3 weeks later. A nurse practitioner at the clinic where I tested positive told me a majority of the Delta cases she'd seen in the prior few weeks were people who'd recently been vaccinated.

Then, I got COVID again 6 months later, and had only been that sick maybe once or twice in my life. By comparison, the first time I had COVID (unvaccinated) it was like a mild, 3-day case of the common cold with loss of taste and smell, which both returned fully in less than two weeks.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Don't believe your own "lived experience." Trust the experts and "The Science." I find it amazing how many people still defend the liars like Fauci after all that has happened.

 

[hodad]

Don't believe your own "lived experience."

My lived experience? I tested positive for Covid when Delta was the prevailing variant. I was fully vaccinated and as far as I could tell, completely asymptomatic.

 

[user 37518]

Don't believe your own "lived experience." Trust the experts and "The Science." I find it amazing how many people still defend the liars like Fauci after all that has happened.

I can't tell if Fauci was outright lying or just completely clueless, either way, the arrogance of these world overlords is beyond belief. To say that "attacks on me, are quite frankly, attacks on science" and then miserably fail like that is a good indication that these people shouldn't be trusted.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

My lived experience? I tested positive for Covid when Delta was the prevailing variant. I was fully vaccinated and as far as I could tell, completely asymptomatic.

So? Plenty of people had asymptomatic cases in the first year...before any "vaccines" were available.

 

[user 37518]

These are undated so hard to place in context. Biden was wrong of course - he should have said it's not over, and that if you're vaccinated you're very unlikely to get serious disease or die, not that you won't get it. He and Fauci were talking about the delta variant, prevalent in 2021 and early 2022. The protection afforded by vaccination was still significant, and the transmission of which was still somewhat reduced by vaccination.

This pandemic was a situation unprecedented in a century, and medical science was scrambling to contain it, sometimes flying by the seat of its pants, doing the best it could, and mistakes were made. However, to attribute errors to malevolent intentions on the part of most people who were dealing with this is not true in most cases - just my opinion.

Of course, for anti-vaxxers all bets are off.

I would like to hear you speaking about "context" if it were Trump, or DeSantis, who said this. So they were wrong on 2021, but right on 2022? So, antivaxxers were right on 2021 and wrong in 2022? Its either one or the other, you can't have it both ways

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I can't tell if Fauci was outright lying or just completely clueless, either way, the arrogance of these world overlords is beyond belief. To say that "attacks on me, are quite frankly, attacks on science" and then miserably fail like that is a good indication that these people shouldn't be trusted.

He's not clueless. He didn't make it to his position in the bureaucracy at the center of the web of funding grants, publication review, and royalty payments by being inept.

 

[crazydoc]

I would like to hear you speaking about "context" if it were Trump, or DeSantis, who said this. So they were wrong on 2021, but right on 2022? So, antivaxxers were right on 2021 and wrong in 2022? Its either one or the other, you can't have it both ways

I don't understand your point - the context was the available information at that time in the pandemic. Put this in context:

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” Anyway, I'm not going to rehash this. We'll all believe what we want to believe, and I'll believe the ignorant on social media cuando la rana crie nalgas y el sapo pelo.