All things G1176 - the new "repost" thread.

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Orson,

You will have to do the trimming-procedure. This sets the FET to just knock-off 1dB. If adjustment to 1dB is not possible, you'll have to find another FET with different parameters.

Jakob E.
 
I remember reading this somewhere but I couldn't find the answer this time around. The voltage for the lamp on the schematic reads 35.4VDC (rectified, but unregulated). I'm ordering the Sifam AL-29WF and a light kit. Would you recommend the 24V or 12V light kit. Both will have to be trimmed down a bit but does either have an advantage? Will the 24V draw less current? Burn brighter? Thanks.
 
[quote author="gyraf"]Orson,

You will have to do the trimming-procedure. This sets the FET to just knock-off 1dB. If adjustment to 1dB is not possible, you'll have to find another FET with different parameters.

Jakob E.[/quote]

I understand. Correct me if I am wrong here, but what your saying is I can't tell if it's the BF245A thats broken unless I trim the new one to see if the lower output goes away? Is there a way to find directly if the BF245A is fried?
 
Hey, I just more or less finished stuffing my 2 1176 pcbs - just waiting on canford to send me some damn output iron...anyway, thought I'd test to see if sound would go in and out - and it does but it sounds very low, and if it goes over a certain input level (still low by any standards) some big clipping/distortion starts...does this sounds right considering no audio tx's been stuffed yet? Also, i've no meter wired in yet...I guess I should be checking voltages compared with the schem right? Having the output tx there or not shudnt effect what spot sees what V right...
 
Hi all!

Some of you may remember that I tried building an 1176 last year. However, I couldn't get rid of the hum so I put the thing on the shelf. After reading about the famous PCB ground loop cut, I decided to give it another chance last night.

Success!

No hum. But the noise level is quite high, about -91 dBu. Is this normal? What's the noise floor level for the original 1176? What about your clones?

/Anders
 
[quote author="gyraf"]Orson,

You will have to do the trimming-procedure. This sets the FET to just knock-off 1dB. If adjustment to 1dB is not possible, you'll have to find another FET with different parameters.

Jakob E.[/quote]

I performed the trimm- procedure for the new BF245A(Q1) and the result was a small improvement in overall output volume but was not as good as it was before. I used to have lots of head room with the output set at 1 o'clock. Now I have to go to three or four o'clock for the same level. I have now tried 4 different BF245A's with the same result. I made sure all things were equal (settings on mic pre, g1176 and input to sound card). So using the same values for each parameter the over all volume is still lower than it was previously.

I remember people mentioning how different BF245A's can effect the compressors performance. Perhaps I need to try more of them? Would matching the new one to the other I have in there help? I am still unsure if the problem is the BF245A at this moment.
 
did you tried measure the voltage on the fet gate, as in the message i linked before?
 
Orson,
I performed the trimm- procedure for the new BF245A(Q1) and the result was a small improvement in overall output volume but was not as good as it was before. I used to have lots of head room with the output set at 1 o'clock. Now I have to go to three or four o'clock for the same level. I have now tried 4 different BF245A's with the same result. I made sure all things were equal (settings on mic pre, g1176 and input to sound card). So using the same values for each parameter the over all volume is still lower than it was previously.

I remember people mentioning how different BF245A's can effect the compressors performance. Perhaps I need to try more of them? Would matching the new one to the other I have in there help? I am still unsure if the problem is the BF245A at this moment.
Go through your G1176 stage by stage without Q1 in the circuit, making sure that your AC gain structure is correct per our previous troubleshooting sessions in this thread. Also make sure that your Qbias voltage is still around -2Vdc. You can check this off the release pot as we have discussed before.

kvintus,
No hum. But the noise level is quite high, about -91 dBu. Is this normal? What's the noise floor level for the original 1176? What about your clones?
Quite a bit of hiss seems normal on these units. Nowhere near as quiet as modern line level gear. Still works fine, though.

Dean
 
Hello everyone,

I've just finished my second project to date, one of Gyraf's 1176 clones and it's been quite a learning curve so far! The amount of effort gone into the project and associated forums is a credit to everyone involved. Great stuff!

The good news is it passes a signal and even sounds lovely and warm. The gain reduction meter and VU both work. However, I've got a problem with low gain that you might be able to help with. Here are some test figures and conditions I've carried out:

Conditions:

200Hz 50mV rms sine wave signal at input.
Input and output pots set to max
Attack and release set to max
Ratio set to 1:4
Meter on bypass
Optional input traffo installed
No traffo mods for higher gain

Measurements with Q1 in place:

Input wiper to gound: 33mV
Output wiper to ground: 19mV
Across 2&3 of output XLR: 33mV (unit is balanced so pin 1 already grounded)
Ground to traffo side of C15: ? (can't locate C15 from the componant layout)

Q bias trimmer fully CCW, ratio 1:20 and release fully CW:

Ground to pin 1 of release pot: -0.268 V DC
Ground to pin 2 of release pot: -0.627 V DC
Ground to pin 3 of release pot: -0.627 V DC

With Q bias trimmer fully CW, above 3 readings are all 0V DC

Measurements with Q1 pulled:

Input wiper to gound: cycles between 6.53 and 6.56V
Output wiper to ground: cycles between 6.59V and 6.72V
Across 2&3 of output XLR: 1.28V
Ground to traffo side of C15: ?

Q bias trimmer fully CCW, ratio 1:20 and release fully CW:

Ground to pin 1,2 & 3 of release pot: All readings cycle periodically between -4 mV and +4mV DC

Here are my Q readings:

E B C
Q2 0.5 1.02 1.75
Q3 1.13 1.75 11.86
Q4 11.25 11.86 29.5
Q5 4.31 4.77 27.8
Q6 28.3 27.8 14.1
Q7 29.0 28.3 14.1
Q8 13.5 14.12 29.5
Q9 13.44 12.82 0.0012
Q12 3.92 4.47 14.84
Q13 14.2 14.8 29.5
Q14 2.86 3.43 16.8
Q15 16.3 15.3 29.5

There seems to be several issues here:

With Q1 in place:

1. Output voltage is really low (19mV across 2&3 of the ouput XLR is way too low, should be above 6V)
2. Input and output wiper voltages are too low at 33mV and 19mV (should be around 50mV and 0.96V, althought the 33mV could be that I'm losing 17mV in the input traffo)
3. Q bias voltage should be better than -2V DC with the trimmer fully CCW (-0.627V is no where near)

With Q1 pulled:

4. There is a strange cycling of readings at the input and output wipers and the Q bias voltage
5. Input & output wiper voltages are far too high at 6.53V and 6.59V (should be more like 50mV and 1V)
6. Voltage across 2&3 of output XLR is far too low at 1.28V (should be above 6V)
7. Q bias voltage should not change much when Q1 is removed

The state of play is, I've identified a number of problems but need some help as to how I can go about fixing them, most of all where to start looking for what might be causing them.

Many thanks in advance! :grin: :green:
 
The Q bias trimmer doesn't significantly change any of the readings.

Turning it fully CW instead of CCW decreases the voltage between 2&3 of the output XLR by 4mV and between ground and the output wiper by 3mV.
 
Hi there,

I now have an 1176 in perfect working order with zero hum and very low hiss!!!!

In the end I decided I wasn't happy with the PCB so I made a new one and stuffed it from scratch. Where I'd been swapping components in and out, the old one had become quite a mess.

I bought a diode/transistor tester made by a company called Atlas and tested all the old components. I couldn't recommend the tester more highly. It quickly showed that BD135 & BD136 were fried, hence no gain at all. A couple of BC107B's were also partially fried.

Other than that, I've discovered that it's vitally important to use decent shielded cable between the input and ouput XLR's. Before I had unshielded cable thinking I'd get away with it but the interference was so bad I could even hear my cordless mouse chattering digital rubbish at me! Hard to pin down as it sounded exactly like an earth loop.

A million thanks to everyone for making this website so informative! I've had a lot of fun making the 1176. Next on my list is an LA2 tube compressor and then of course there's the Pultec EQ....................
 
Well, I finished up my first 1176 using Gustav's boards with the "Hitchhiker" cut and the perimeter ground buss wire mods. It's quiet and passes signal, but I'm not sure it's working correctly. I've been trying to calibrate it and wonder if I'm doing something wrong as I can't seem to get the GR Meter Tracking Adjustment to happen.

Here's what I've done so far:

Q-Bias Adjustment

I used the following instructions (don't know who wrote it, but I think it was Dean):

The proper adjustment of this trimmer is made like this:

Input a weak signal, around -10dB or something and measure the AC output level without gain reduction. I did this using a 250Hz signal at .3 volts.

Set the attack and release controls fully clockwise, the ration to 1:4, and the output level to max. Turn the input level so you get something readable, like 100mV on your voltmeter on your output. I did this exactly as written.

Now adjust the Q-Bias trimmer until you have a 1dB drop in output level. That's it. I adjusted the trimmer until the output voltage stabilized at 89mV. Is this right? Also, is the Q-Bias adjustment kind of finicky? When I start with it fully CCW, I have to turn it fully CW and then after a bit the level starts to drop. I then move it back towards the middle of its range and can dial in the correct final drop then. What do you think?

GR Meter Tracking Adjustment

Set ratio to 1:20, set meter to bypass. Input a 1kHz, 50mV signal. Set input level to ~12 o'clock. Set output level so you get 50mV at the ouput also (now you have unity gain). Now set the meter switch to "GR." Slowly turn up the level of your input signal (at the signal source, not with the input level control) while you monitor both input and output levels with a voltmeter.

Now here's where it gets weird for me:
When you reach a point where the output level is half the input level, you have a 6dB of gain reduction in the unit. How many volts are we talking about here? My output voltage doesn't really start lagging until I get a pretty hot signal in the input. Where should the input and output voltages be when they reach this 2:1 ratio? BTW, I'm using the stock wiring setup on the output tranny.

Power Supply Voltages:

Primary: 118 VAC
PCB: 30.5 VDC and -9.8 VDC

Here are the voltages I measured for each transistor:

E B C
Q2--.51--1.03--1.83
Q3--1.20--1.83--11.85
Q4--11.36--11.96--30.5
Q5--4.41--4.87--28.7
Q6--29.3--28.7--14.47
Q7--30--29.3--14.47
Q8--13.84--14.47--30.5
Q9--13.80--13.19--0.0
Q12--2.38--2.88--9.75
Q13--9.17--9.76--30.5
Q14--1.62--2.17--10.69
Q15--10.15--10.69--30.5

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
:guinness: :sam: :guinness: :sam:
Don
 
Don,

If you have compression, but GR meter tracking problems, try with a different GR meter FET. At best one that is matched with the VCA-fet.

Jakob E.
 
I've tried four different FETs in that position and they all track the same. I ordered some more and the correct resistors to make PRR's matching circuit, but it seems that the problem is elsewhere.

Any thoughts on where the voltages should be for the input/output ratio?

Also, does it sound as though my Q-bias adjustment is working as it should?

Thanks,
--
Don
 
The absolute input/output volts you adjust your meter at dosen't matter. If 1V input is needed to make the output go to 0.5V, that is still -6dB.

Have you verified that you have compression working?

Jakob E.
 
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