Best PCB design tool?

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

KiCad(8) lacks specific layers for pads and vias, among many.

 

[zamproject]

They remove the -Objects- menu in the appearance manager ?!?
Don't know for others, but in KiCad -Layers- are really for layer, a pad is on multiple layers, thus they use -Objects- selectors

 

[Newmarket]

KiCad(8) lacks specific layers for pads and vias, among many.

Specific Layer for pads and vias ? Not really a thing ime. Although a Display menu might let you "hide" them
Though not sure why you would want to tbh.

 

[Newmarket]

This MECCANO would be similar to my "Erector Set" setup:

View attachment 123372

For those of you who are -- looking for and/or needing some -- heavy-duty project enclosures, there is this company that is located not too far from where I live >> PHOENIX MECANO <<, which is what I thought "Newmarket" may have been referring to, only misspelled:

https://www.phoenixmecano.com

/

Yes. Along those lines. But I'm not going to Google "Erector''

 

[john12ax7]

Does KiCad not sync schematic and layout? Might give it another go but that's kind of a deal breaker imo.

I also liked diptrace when I've tried it, felt the closest to "professional" of the lower cost options.

 

[zamproject]

Does KiCad not sync schematic and layout?

Of course it dose !! both way
But it's a manual operation...still one clic
There is options for what kind of update/sync you want, and relative to what -link-, netlist, footprint, component ref...

 

[john12ax7]

Of course it dose !! both way
But it's a manual operation...still one clic
There is options for what kind of update/sync you want, and relative to what -link-, netlist, footprint, component ref...

That's good, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

https://forum.kicad.info/t/meaning-of-the-layer-names/46509/4
Eagle has many more "layers" than KiCad, most are not for physical production steps, but logical or informational, many user assignable. Some are really useful and some very critical, some being clobbered in KiCad and EasyCAD.
The Eagle Manual list 52 layers in "Layout" and "package" (board-layout and footprint)
Some of Eagle's layers in schematic are unique for it, some in schematic belong to board design functions, which is brain-dead.
I have not shown any copper layers on purpose. The .DRU file selected will show the number of layers in use.

 

[Newmarket]

[I have taken a look at Kicad as it gets quite a bit of love here and I like the CERN angle] -- Of all of the CAD schematic programs you have listed, KiCAD is the only one that is actually easily affordable to use. I have ALTIUM Designer, CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" and KiCAD all installed on my CAD-workstation here-at-home and honestly, only KiCAD is the most functional -- AND -- the lowest-cost schematics program between those three. While my line of work is more geared towards the "corporate world", I installed the KiCAD program just so I could "communicate" with forum members on here and because it is a "new" program.

Well affordability is subjective. I'd say that at least lowest cost option for Easy-PC is affordable if semi -serious about schematics/PCB (its Library system is historically its weak point). But the same developers also produce the RS DesignSpark stuff with various free/costed options.
Individual preferences will vary. But I think some of that has to do whether someone is think from a schematic or pcb layout being the highest priority.
They are both important of course. But I see differences in design engineers who produce the design and CAD people who are not electronics design engineers.
example : my main CAD guy at work runs on CADSTAR. From what he has seen he hates the idea of running Altium.

[But have to say it's not for me] -- Perhaps you should decide to spring for their series of "Training Videos". The last I checked, it cost USD $55.00 to enroll into. Should that price be too much for you, then.....there's these courses:

If I were looking at this from zero then I'm sure I'd look at all the options.
But I don't need to do that. I have access to (in various vintages) EasyPC and Altium Designer software and have also done a few test bits and pieces via Altium Circuitmaker.

My first exposure to the CAD-world of electronic schematics and PCB-design was with the Racal-Redac (now ZUKEN) "CADSTAR" program back in 1986.....38-years ago!!! (In case you are unaware of the history of the "CADSTAR" software, it was originally a -- British -- CAD program and at one-point-in-time, practically every electronics company used it!!! Then, PADS-PCB came onto the market). I never had any issues and/or problems with either the schematics or the PCB-design side of the program. I even became good enough with understanding the internal file-structure of a completed PCB, that when a file had become corrupted for whatever reason, I could bring the board-file up in an ASCII-editor, review the code, could recognize a piece of code that was incorrect and correct it, save the edited file and end up with a now working PCB-file!!!

Well aware of CADSTAR and Racal/Zuken Redac. Did three days training on it when an employer bent for it back in the 90s - not long after the went WIndows with it from DOS. And fast forwarding it's the system my current employer uses (contrary to the rest of the global corporation that tends to run Altium). Although I don't use it at work myself.

[the schematics looked as if made from Meccano] -- Does "Meccano = Mexico"??? I don't understand. In any case, I haven't used CADSTAR since I was introduced to the OrCAD software somewhere around 1990 or so. While the OrCAD software itself was OK, I haven't been too totally thrilled with it ever since CADENCE bought OrCAD in 1995 and "folded" the OrCAD schematics program and the MASSTECK "PCB Layout" program together to make what is now the CADENCE/OrCAD "PCB Editor" program what it is today. (OrCAD bought MASSTECK before CADENCE bought OrCAD and OrCAD bought MASSTECK because their PCB-design program was so superior to the -- AWFUL -- PCB-design program that OrCAD had developed)!!!

I tend to agree "by feel" on ORCAD. My first "professional" ECAD experience was with a cracked copy of Orcad 3.1 But that did end up with the company dropping what was quite a lot of money on a legit up to date version a bit later on.
fast forward to 2007 and I was evaluating for replacing an ancient DOS CADSTAR !

CADSTAR vs Altium vs Orcad

Orcad product offering seemed very fragmented - difficult to know what permutaion we would need.
And vendor emphasis seemed to be pushing towards the more £££s Allegro platform that I knew that company wouldn't require.

 

[RogerAF]

There are 8 layers just for silk,

Um, on inner layers? Or for different colors? Or am I missing something? Sorry, I'm old and never even printed anything on the bottom of the board, but I can see that being necessary.
I used to use CircuitMaker/TraxMaker, now using Kicad and on the learning curve.

 

[Cqwet Dbdfte]

Hope that KiCad works out for you, I'll suss it out later.

EagleCAD has four standard silk layers, two for top, two for bottom.
The "panelize" ULP script adds another four.
The first is 21 tPlace which is linked to >Names, which Eagle automatically assigns sequential numbers to, like C1, C2, C3 etc.
The second is 27 tValues, for those who want to put part values on boards, OK sometimes, and is useful as an assembly drawing.
Both can be turned off individually. Another set for bottom. The tPlace layer is normally used for anything silk screened, revisions, board numbers etc.
If you make a panel, which involved copy&paste a board into a new empty "board" drawing, without a schematic, the automatic incrementation would add numbers to the sequence thus making the tPlace numbers not corresponding to the schematic.
These are layers 125 thru 128, that replace the original four.
When you make a board production file, with a CAM utility, (Gerbers, Drill file etc) the top and bottom silk prints are selected among those eight.
Layers in Eagle are drawing layers, some are physical, some copper, some paste, some glue, some, drills, some other process steps, some for production notes, board material, stackup, board, color, plating etc
I use the latter heavily for manufacturing notes, test and development notes, expected results, test results, what not. One department may not need all the info, so drawing layers are selected as needed.
The surface mount people do not need the thru-hole parts instructions, for orientation etc.
Scroll up and you will find the layers I posted. Any color and pattern can be assigned to any layer. (Alpha channel is not used in Eagle schematic.)
The first 100 "layers" are built-in, the remaining 155 are user assignable.
Eagle has about 169 "ULP" scripts that adds functionality, many of which has been contributed by users.
Parts Libraries,schematic, board are all plain text XML, not some binary blob.