Brewery politics

[dirtyhanfri]

Just that.

We have more political threads than I ever seen since 2010.

Let's try to keep the real world sh*t out of here, please.

Of course I can just don't look at political threads, but I think they don't make any good to this nice community, also, those arguments can make some people give up on using the whole forum just for political differences.

 

[iampoor1]

Yup.

I have been reading the threads as a lurker for the past few months, and its pretty clear (from an outside perspective) where the lines have been drawn. A few members, unable to accept that other people are not 100% sold on their opinion, are just turning the threads into personal attacks. Im not going to name names, or pick on anyone in particular, but some of the threads are starting to just get absurd.

Still much better than most other political threads on forums! I learned a lot just reading through them.  8)

 

[dirtyhanfri]

I've been trying to lurk them for a while, as I find quite interesting to read opinions from people living different countries and situations, but it gets so difficult to learn among all that personal attacks...

Actually there aren't so much threads, but seems to be always on top.

Maybe it's just me, local politics situation is so tense nowadays and getting more politics here is like "no more, please"

 

[rob_gould]

I think they're quite interesting.

There are posts by some members that provide insight into other opinions and mindsets that are informative to me, and help me understand understand 'the other side' better.

Then there are some opinions that I fundamentally agree with which are drowned out by the ad hominem attacks that normally accompany them.

Then of course there are one or two points of view that are just stark, raving bonkers

All in all, I don't want heavy handed moderation or regulation of any part of this forum, but I think losing the personal attacks and rhetorical question from the politics threads would bump up the value of those threads immensely.

 

[dmp]

I think they're quite interesting.
There are posts by some members that provide insight into other opinions and mindsets that are informative to me, and help me understand understand 'the other side' better.
Then there are some opinions that I fundamentally agree with which are drowned out by the ad hominem attacks that normally accompany them.
Then of course there are one or two points of view that are just stark, raving bonkers
All in all, I don't want heavy handed moderation or regulation of any part of this forum, but I think losing the personal attacks and rhetorical question from the politics threads would bump up the value of those threads immensely.

Agreed, I think when posts stick to personal experience and facts they can be very interesting.
When posts are lecturing and patronizing  OR  angry and belligerent, nobody gets much from them.
You should accept when you make a post that you probably aren't going to be able to change the mind of your ideological opposite, rather you might learn something yourself. And contribute some inconvenient facts to a point of view you disagree with.

 

[emrr]

I'm not sure where we are supposed to talk politics?  It seems to be increasingly banned, which isn't good.  It can be an excellent training ground for discourse. 

 

[dmp]

I'm not sure where we are supposed to talk politics?  It seems to be increasingly banned, which isn't good.  It can be an excellent training ground for discourse. 

Excellent point.
Don't talk politics at work - not at family gatherings - only safe place now is with your own social circle that just reinforces your own beliefs. And people become more polarized than ever.

 

[Matador]

"Warning: bar-stool preachers inside...."

 

[benb]

I just read the first page of a 'quick' thread and it seems to be mean-spirited from the start, far from the relatively good discourse I've seen in other threads, such as economy. Even 'good' political discussion is a bit of a distraction for me, I come here mostly to read about audio electronics.

 

[DerEber]

Even if it is sometimes hard to understand for me language wise, I very much appreciate that I have the possibility here to read peoples views from all over the world!

To me it is great to read what members think about the american health system, their president, digital money systems etc..
I skip most of the tough little fights cause it is hard to follow, but I see clever things been said and people really trying to understand each other.
Sometimes someone is pissed off, but thats ok for me.  ;D

I don't have a good overview of the most recent topics, but if there are personal attacks or whatever we seem not to want here it may be wise to add another forum moderator who loves the political discussions and can calm down in our mandate.

I personaly think it works quite good here.
Look we are from very different places on earth and we have sometimes a very different view of what is still nice atmosphere or too rough or how to argue.

I vote for no ban  8)

 

[JohnRoberts]

Political discussions are allowed in the Brewery, and if people are easily offended. it is easy enough to just not read them ( I don't read a bunch of them).  The topics are pretty obvious about what is inside. 

2. Absolutely NO pornography, sexually offensive comments... (I mention this because sexual insults were common years ago when political rants got carried away).

4. You will find that the members of this community are incredibly courteous and respectful of each other, so please reciprocate those gestures. Leave the Flame-war mentality at another forum.  Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

Thanks and enjoy!
-Ethan

I have my own set of personal rules about political discussions that I try to follow, but even I am human, so occasionally slip.

#1 do not argue about what people "believe"... often they do not even know themselves or may be fluid about what they think or believe. 

#2 do not argue about things that can not be known or can not be proved. Many arguments are based on vague hypotheticals.

#3 it is possible to be confident that you are correct, while arguing with a person who is equally confident you are wrong. Often one or the other is correct, but it is not easily determined. It is also possible to be the one who is wrong (I was wrong before and probably will be again).

#4 do not make it personal. We all have different backgrounds and educations. Nobody here is stupid while we are all ignorant of something . If we listen half as much as we talk we might learn something.

I will repeat I am proud of how well "most" people behave around here. We haven't had to vote anybody off the island for years. A few have needed gentle advice, but nothing serious.  Likewise this is not a "safe space"  so do not ask stupid questions and expect infinite patience. Act like an adult and you will be treated like an adult.

JR

PS: I am impressed with how well non-english speakers can communicate around here. I would be lucky to order beer in their language (well that wouldn't exactly be luck).

 

[dirtyhanfri]

First of all, thanks for all the opinions.

Maybe I'm just a bit biased by political situation here in Spain, which makes me a bit angry and it's on all the time in every social media, tv or bar-stool preach this days, many of them with a 19th century's mindset.

Also, not trying to ban, I think it's almost never the solution, not even trying to impose political correctness, I think we all (or almost all of us)  are educated enough to respect different points of view, or at least, we should be.

As other members said, is quite interesting to know thinking ways of people from different countries and living different situations than me.

I've really enjoyed threads like that about Obama Care, even keeping in mind I didn't post once there.

The thing is in the last months, the number and presence in the top of the forum of politicals threads seems to be higher than I remember here, not a problem by itself, but it would be sad if this forum gets contaminated from the rising political tension in real world.

 

[Phrazemaster]

I greatly enjoy all the discussions, political or otherwise. It is all interesting to me.

Where I’ve found myself angry and pissed off is when it’s become personal - either someone attacking me or insulting me with no provocation, or seeing someone attack others over and over.

There is just no cause for this, and I’ve avoided certain threads for months sometimes just because I don’t need the stress.

I would be in favor of a stronger reinforcing of the rules when discussions break down into insults and attacks, and there are many instances of (apparently) unmoderated attacks left unchecked.

But what do I know? Maybe many posts have been deleted or moderated and members talked to.

And of course it would be a drag and a chore for moderators to have to rein in certain members all the time.

Finally, I wouldn’t want to muzzle people either. Sigh. You just can’t make people be nice.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I greatly enjoy all the discussions, political or otherwise. It is all interesting to me.

It can get old fast when it is more of a dialog than group discussion.

Where I’ve found myself angry and pissed off is when it’s become personal - either someone attacking me or insulting me with no provocation, or seeing someone attack others over and over.

It is against the rules to make personal attacks (ad hominem).

Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

If you experience such, file a moderation report about the specific post and one of us will deal with it.

There is just no cause for this, and I’ve avoided certain threads for months sometimes just because I don’t need the stress.

I avoid some (many) posts because they are a waste of time.. rehashing the same old arguments, and endless speculation without new or credible facts.

I would be in favor of a stronger reinforcing of the rules when discussions break down into insults and attacks, and there are many instances of (apparently) unmoderated attacks left unchecked.

file the report....  (please don't go digging through old past threads, but report new recent occurrences of personal attacks against you.

(I sometimes turn the other cheek to insults because I am a big boy, but people should not interpret that as license to continue breaking the rules. I am reluctant to use the moderation tools I have to win an argument)

But what do I know? Maybe many posts have been deleted or moderated and members talked to.

And of course it would be a drag and a chore for moderators to have to rein in certain members all the time.

Finally, I wouldn’t want to muzzle people either. Sigh. You just can’t make people be nice.

If a member refuses moderation, they will be shown the door, while we haven't had to kick anybody off the island for years. We routinely delete accounts of spammers, so it is surprisingly easy to disappear somebody when appropriate.  8) (about  two mouse clicks)

I am reminded of something a big burly bar bouncer told me years ago... "Its nice to be nice".

JR

 

[DaveP]

I agree it's good to hear people's opinions from around the world.

I prefer to hear from people direct, rather than just re-posts from Twitter, I rarely read them.

References to certain sites may be necessary to back up certain facts.

I have learned a lot about US government, Healthcare and Politics from this forum, I doubt I could have picked that up anywhere else.

I don't like bullying in any shape or form and I react if I see abuse  just because someone has a different opinion.

Political discussion has increased in the Brewery, primarily because Trump is such a divisive figure.

Keep it short and sweet is my objective, but sometimes that's hard to do.

DaveP

 

[benb]

If a member refuses moderation, they will be shown the door, while we haven't had to kick anybody off the island for years. We routinely delete accounts of spammers, so it is surprisingly easy to disappear somebody when appropriate.  8) (about  two mouse clicks)

I hesitate to mention this as discussion of moderation decisions is generally off-topic in most any forum, but I could have sworn someone was banned last year, yet now that I look they're not. Apparently they stopped posting and moved on.

 

[Phrazemaster]

It can get old fast when it is more of a dialog than group discussion. It is against the rules to make personal attacks (ad hominem).

Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

If you experience such, file a moderation report about the specific post and one of us will deal with it. I avoid some (many) posts because they are a waste of time.. rehashing the same old arguments, and endless speculation without new or credible facts.file the report....  (please don't go digging through old past threads, but report new recent occurrences of personal attacks against you.

(I sometimes turn the other cheek to insults because I am a big boy, but people should not interpret that as license to continue breaking the rules. I am reluctant to use the moderation tools I have to win an argument)If a member refuses moderation, they will be shown the door, while we haven't had to kick anybody off the island for years. We routinely delete accounts of spammers, so it is surprisingly easy to disappear somebody when appropriate.  8) (about  two mouse clicks)

I am reminded of something a big burly bar bouncer told me years ago... "Its nice to be nice".

JR

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[malnatim]

i've always thought it maybe a nice idea if sites with political discussion had an e-prime only rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime

this is the only site i know where i could imagine something so sensible happening.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hesitate to mention this as discussion of moderation decisions is generally off-topic in most any forum, but I could have sworn someone was banned last year, yet now that I look they're not. Apparently they stopped posting and moved on.

I would have to go back through the moderation reports, but I think I would remember if we removed somebody recently.

Some new members (perhaps millennials) objected to the tone from crusty old timers. Being a crusty old timer I am kind of sympathetic to the old timers. This is not a safe space. But we should try to be a little sensitive to how others perceive our comments.

I have privately requested better behavior from members before and AFAIK they all complied. I have no qualms about dissapearing somebody who openly rejects moderation (but haven't had to). We are not the cops policing every post, more like prosecutors who decide if formal complaints we receive require action, and like garbage men who carry out the trash (spammers).

Peer pressure can go a long way to altering the behavior of nasty posters. What is acceptable posting behavior for other forums is just not normal for here (a good thing).

JR

 

[s2udio]

I'm not sure where we are supposed to talk politics?  It seems to be increasingly banned, which isn't good.  It can be an excellent training ground for discourse.

Absolutely.........if you don't want to read it.....then ignore it !
Its as easy as that !
Freedom of speech is the key to healthy Democracy,
Which is being politically and surreptitiously chipped away at, almost to a Fascism mentality