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Donald trump. what is your take on him?
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dmp
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
It would also be good to realize how widespread civil asset forfeiture has gotten to be. A blatantly unconstitutional practice (4th amendment) that has been upheld on the premise that it is against the property, not the person (in rem).
So if a person is suspected of a crime, the police can confiscate and pocket the money/assets and it is the individual's responsibility to show the money/assets are clean (not involved in a crime). Most people that have something seized do not have the means to fight it.
This is happening day in day out to primarily poor and unpowerful people.
You wonder why people resent the police? Why a lot of poor / minority people in particular? Look at this issue.
The abusive asset confiscation is indeed unconstitutional and not exactly a new phenomenon.dmp said:
The poor minority citizens are not the ones losing ski boats. But even taking assets from drug dealers without due process is wrong. It is not accidental that they prevent drug dealers from using their own money to pay expensive private lawyers for legal defense.
Jeff Sessions is targeting drug dealers with his support for this. Clearly criminals should not benefit from the proceeds of criminal activity, but due process needs to be involved to prevent abuse.
We agree... (as long as we don't look too much closer.)
JR
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tands
Guest
You're right, it's unconstitutional.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVrCnOj6vTM
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Taking their rent and food money is worse. You're the only one talking about drug dealers and ski boats, I notice. It makes it a lot easier to defend the police when you smear the people they abuse, doesn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVrCnOj6vTM
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Attachments
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tands
Guest
https://thesouthlawn.org/2017/09/11/theft-as-redistribution-in-a-time-of-crisis/
https://youtu.be/tX7hs5mfdac?t=749
Drug dealers (and gangs) is a fixation of AG Sessions not me. All the high profile asset seizures I have read about involving large dollar sums, over the years have been related to criminal drug activity, or indirectly (like money laundering for drug dealers).tands said:You're right, it's unconstitutional.
Taking their rent and food money is worse. You're the only one talking about drug dealers and ski boats, I notice. It makes it a lot easier to defend the police when you smear the people they abuse, doesn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVrCnOj6vTM
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This becomes a perverse economic incentive for police/DAs when they benefit from the assets they seize. Any legal asset seizures need to go into the general fund to prevent the perverse incentive. This might make them less enthusiastic.
I have no qualms about defending the police as a profession (every profession has bad apples). I was not practicing sophistry or typical identity politics to demonize a class of people, while I see little to defend about drug dealers. Civil asset forfeiture laws grew out of the war on drugs (1970s). There are abuses and due process should be involved for all seizures. I have read about cases of asset seizures where the individual was never convicted of a crime. That is obviously unconstitutional.
JR
dmp
Well-known member
Jeff Sessions:
"As any of these law enforcement partners will tell you and as President Trump knows well, civil asset forfeiture is a key tool that helps law enforcement defund organized crime, take back ill-gotten gains, and prevent new crimes from being committed, and it weakens the criminals and the cartels. Even more importantly, it helps return property to the victims of crime. Civil asset forfeiture takes the material support of the criminals and instead makes it the material support of law enforcement, funding priorities like new vehicles, bulletproof vests, opioid overdose reversal kits, and better training. In departments across this country, funds that were once used to take lives are now being used to save lives."
"Now, let me just say, in the vast majority of cases, this is not an issue. Our law enforcement officers do an incredible job. In fact, over the last decade, four out of five administrative civil asset forfeitures filed by federal law enforcement agencies were never challenged in court."
It doesn't seem like Sessions gets it. 80% do not challenge in court means the ill-gotten gains were legit?
tp://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/03/civil-asset-forfeiture-7-things-you-should-know
Recent indications are the SCOTUS is looking for a case to make the point that civil asset forfieture is unconstitutional.
"As any of these law enforcement partners will tell you and as President Trump knows well, civil asset forfeiture is a key tool that helps law enforcement defund organized crime, take back ill-gotten gains, and prevent new crimes from being committed, and it weakens the criminals and the cartels. Even more importantly, it helps return property to the victims of crime. Civil asset forfeiture takes the material support of the criminals and instead makes it the material support of law enforcement, funding priorities like new vehicles, bulletproof vests, opioid overdose reversal kits, and better training. In departments across this country, funds that were once used to take lives are now being used to save lives."
"Now, let me just say, in the vast majority of cases, this is not an issue. Our law enforcement officers do an incredible job. In fact, over the last decade, four out of five administrative civil asset forfeitures filed by federal law enforcement agencies were never challenged in court."
It doesn't seem like Sessions gets it. 80% do not challenge in court means the ill-gotten gains were legit?
tp://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2014/03/civil-asset-forfeiture-7-things-you-should-know
Recent indications are the SCOTUS is looking for a case to make the point that civil asset forfieture is unconstitutional.
Agreed it is unconstitutional without due process... With proper adjudication, forfeiture of criminal activity generated assets seems prudent. However to use it as a strategy to prevent future crime sounds like bad science fiction.dmp said:
JR
dmp
Well-known member
Let's remember the police firing pepper spray against seated, non violent protesters at UC Davis on 11/18/11JohnRoberts said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4
I remember national guard shooting and killing college student protestors at Kent State***... (that was before youtube and social media).dmp said:
JR
*** I heard the radio reports about Kent State while sitting in my army barracks at Ft Riley. I don't know about pepper spray, but we had to take off our gas masks and breath CS (tear gas) inside a closed space as part of our basic training (not fun). I expect pepper spray is very irritating but non-lethal (probably concentrated capsaicin). Certainly better than some of the violent physical beat downs I've seen video clips of from violent protesters. We use water cannons, rubber bullets, and other non-lethal force to motivate recalcitrant citizens to obey police authority. Free speech does not mean free "to ignore the authorities". There are still some US city police departments that haven't embraced Tasers yet. "Don't taze me bro... "
dmp
Well-known member
It seems things have gotten better from 50 yrs ago. I will give you that
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tands
Guest
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tands
Guest
Report on the Juggalo March. Nice!
https://itsgoingdown.org/our-antifa-crew-marched-with-juggalos-heres-what-happened/
https://itsgoingdown.org/our-antifa-crew-marched-with-juggalos-heres-what-happened/
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tands
Guest
Antifa thread regarding Nazis, seems sensible. Many pictures of Nazis and their flags though.
https://twitter.com/WolftrapAF/status/908515118560022528
THREAD: The entryism-based recruitment strategy for US fascist movements. Pictured below Vanguard America at March Against Sharia Harrisburg
1. It's the thing we've been fighting with Trump supporters about for months. US - You're hanging out with Nazis" THEM - "No they're not!"
2. Vanguard, Identity Evropa, Stormers, TWP and numerous other fascist groups had been blending in at the Trump rallies for a while now.
3. The idea is not new. "Get our people in there. Change the party from within." Progressives are trying to do this with the Democrats.
4. Nazis / WS saw an opportunity to do the same thing with Trump Republicans. Wearing the MAGA hat here is Matthew Heimbach, leader of TWP.
5. This is Andrew Anglin, lead editor of Nazi website The Daily Stormer. He also saw an opportunity and eagerly jumped on the Trump Train.
6. The strategy worked. The Nazi numbers grew. Trump's anti-immigration platform matched up perfectly with the White Power agenda.
7. Richard Spencer saw an opportunity as well. The growing online Alt Right seized the moment and became Trump's online army.
8. Naturally, people fought back when Trump won. Protests erupted across the nation. This was met with a right wing street offensive.
9. This right wing street offensive came in the form of Free Speech Rallies, Marches for Trump, Patriot Prayer, March Against Sharia, etc.
10. The Nazis saw another opportunity with these street demos. Pictured here, Aryan Strikeforce & Vanguard members at #March4Trump Philly.
11. This is the essence the Nazi entryist strategy. Integrate your political beliefs into a larger movement. Redpill as many as you can.
12. We often find outselves clashing with libertarians, mainstream conservatives and liberals. The reason centers around a misunderstanding.
13. We know what the Nazis are trying to do. They're pulling as many people into their camp as possible. Republicans are their target.
14. We have a lot of BIG disagreements with Trump Republicans too, but they are being used as cannon fodder by Nazi agitators right now.
15. If we expect to move past this endless free speech debate, Republicans, Libertarians & liberals need to understand what's rly happening.
16. You are being USED and TRICKED by Nazi killers-in-waiting. They don't give a sh*t about you, at all, not even a little bit.
17. I can't make it any clearer than that. This is about POWER, not speech. The Nazis are building POWER. Antifa can't let that happen.
18. We can't let them get too strong. If we do, people are going to get killed. They already have.
END THREAD
https://twitter.com/WolftrapAF/status/908515118560022528
THREAD: The entryism-based recruitment strategy for US fascist movements. Pictured below Vanguard America at March Against Sharia Harrisburg
1. It's the thing we've been fighting with Trump supporters about for months. US - You're hanging out with Nazis" THEM - "No they're not!"
2. Vanguard, Identity Evropa, Stormers, TWP and numerous other fascist groups had been blending in at the Trump rallies for a while now.
3. The idea is not new. "Get our people in there. Change the party from within." Progressives are trying to do this with the Democrats.
4. Nazis / WS saw an opportunity to do the same thing with Trump Republicans. Wearing the MAGA hat here is Matthew Heimbach, leader of TWP.
5. This is Andrew Anglin, lead editor of Nazi website The Daily Stormer. He also saw an opportunity and eagerly jumped on the Trump Train.
6. The strategy worked. The Nazi numbers grew. Trump's anti-immigration platform matched up perfectly with the White Power agenda.
7. Richard Spencer saw an opportunity as well. The growing online Alt Right seized the moment and became Trump's online army.
8. Naturally, people fought back when Trump won. Protests erupted across the nation. This was met with a right wing street offensive.
9. This right wing street offensive came in the form of Free Speech Rallies, Marches for Trump, Patriot Prayer, March Against Sharia, etc.
10. The Nazis saw another opportunity with these street demos. Pictured here, Aryan Strikeforce & Vanguard members at #March4Trump Philly.
11. This is the essence the Nazi entryist strategy. Integrate your political beliefs into a larger movement. Redpill as many as you can.
12. We often find outselves clashing with libertarians, mainstream conservatives and liberals. The reason centers around a misunderstanding.
13. We know what the Nazis are trying to do. They're pulling as many people into their camp as possible. Republicans are their target.
14. We have a lot of BIG disagreements with Trump Republicans too, but they are being used as cannon fodder by Nazi agitators right now.
15. If we expect to move past this endless free speech debate, Republicans, Libertarians & liberals need to understand what's rly happening.
16. You are being USED and TRICKED by Nazi killers-in-waiting. They don't give a sh*t about you, at all, not even a little bit.
17. I can't make it any clearer than that. This is about POWER, not speech. The Nazis are building POWER. Antifa can't let that happen.
18. We can't let them get too strong. If we do, people are going to get killed. They already have.
END THREAD
I recently watched a film on Netflix called Bushwick.
It was about the Southern States infiltrating the Northern cities for the purpose of ceding from the union, like a covert re-run of the civil war.
Democracy is a very precious commodity, people have died in their millions to achieve it, but sometimes it gives results that you might not like, Hammas and Brexit for example.
Not accepting the results of elections leads to division and sometimes civil war.
Patience is required when you don't get the result you want. Take the time to find a better candidate with a message that is in tune with the majority of voters.
DaveP
It was about the Southern States infiltrating the Northern cities for the purpose of ceding from the union, like a covert re-run of the civil war.
Democracy is a very precious commodity, people have died in their millions to achieve it, but sometimes it gives results that you might not like, Hammas and Brexit for example.
Not accepting the results of elections leads to division and sometimes civil war.
Patience is required when you don't get the result you want. Take the time to find a better candidate with a message that is in tune with the majority of voters.
DaveP
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tands
Guest
I'm not really going to accept responsibility for the situation, Dave, my candidate was cheated out of the nomination by the loser Hillary Clinton..Jonathan Capehart, Donna Brazile, and Debbie Wasserman-Shultz...and Bernie would have won. So much for american 'democracy'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfbRHhFtMQ
https://twitter.com/RuthHHopkins/status/910267674906816513
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgfbRHhFtMQ
https://twitter.com/RuthHHopkins/status/910267674906816513
I was not laying any blame at your door, just pointing out that democracy is more important than the result of any one election.
Yes, that woman has no place in any political party after posting that. I hope she is removed from office.
DaveP
Yes, that woman has no place in any political party after posting that. I hope she is removed from office.
DaveP
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tands
Guest
We don't really have democracy though, the elites give us the choice between two candidates they pick, that's a sham democracy or worse.
You seem to be in agreement with Trump voters in that respect, that was their beef.
The US system has grown into such a money monster that only established parties or a very rich man with his own resources can compete or put up candidates. This system will never be restructured as long as it suits the elites, as you say. The nearest it has got to a shake-up was Trump, we can only hope they take the message from the voters on board.
DaveP
I new trend in controlling violence at protests is to not allow protesters (?) to wear masks, and carry weapons (like bats). This seems to be working at reducing disruption from physical violence, but they may have a little trouble with the second amendment in some open carry states (that protect self defense). Some argue that wearing masks is protected speech (1st amendment) I won't hold my breath for that argument to reach SCOTUS. Some guy was arrested for wearing clown makeup so it may get tested at least by a lower court.
Ironically (perhaps?) a number of states passed anti-mask laws back in the mid-20th century to suppress Ku Klux Klan activity (losers think alike?). Kind of like using fake names on the internet to conceal identity when making ugly comments. Or pretending you are not working for the Russian government when placing divisive ads on facebook (about race, immigration, gay rights).
JR
PS: If Bernie's policy had wide appeal he would have done something with his decade being in the senate. He recently proposed single payer healthcare (again) while ironically his home state (VT) tried to implement a statewide single payer system then abandoned it as too expensive for the state's residents to afford..
Ironically (perhaps?) a number of states passed anti-mask laws back in the mid-20th century to suppress Ku Klux Klan activity (losers think alike?). Kind of like using fake names on the internet to conceal identity when making ugly comments. Or pretending you are not working for the Russian government when placing divisive ads on facebook (about race, immigration, gay rights).
JR
PS: If Bernie's policy had wide appeal he would have done something with his decade being in the senate. He recently proposed single payer healthcare (again) while ironically his home state (VT) tried to implement a statewide single payer system then abandoned it as too expensive for the state's residents to afford..
