Donald trump. what is your take on him?

[Andy Peters]

I saw a report that the secret service are on high alert because of an expected assassination attempt on Trump.

Surely they've been on "high alert" since the moment that Obama's first election win was announced.

 

[DaveP]

Dude, I'm brown. Do you want me to ignore all the bigots in this nation who now think they have a president that's on their side? Those who now feel empowered by that?

You might as well, as you can't re-educate them overnight, you may just have to wait until that generation dies out.  Wait and see if he's on their side before you give up hope, they might turn out to be more disillusioned than you over his term.

Don't frickin' tell me to relax about this. No offense, but I see an awful lot of white people telling minorities to chill out and give the guy a chance and to understand the poor white voters that finally found a vote in Trump. How about the damn opposite!?

I only heard Obama and Clinton saying give him a chance, maybe they know the real score more than you do.

DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Actually, name calling was just thoroughly embraced by Republican voters. Never has a Presidential candidate engaged in name calling the way Trump did. Reading your posts I feel like you are living in an alternate reality. I understand your optimism if you are wealthy and expect to benefit from the next 4 yrs, but personal wealth is not the only thing in life. Looks like Trump is going to start off with tax cuts to send more money to the wealthy, putting the country deeper in debt, and give big corporations free reign to increase pollution and oppression of the working class. The poor fools who are his base are going to be in a rude surprise as their lives get significantly worse over the next few years.  Starting off with allowing health insurers to deny/limit their coverage based on health history. I expect his tough talk on trade to amount to nothing more than a few "renegotiations" that do squat.
And it's a little of "do as I say, not as I did" to expect liberals to compromise and work with Republicans, after the last 8 yrs.  Obama was elected with a huge majority - dwarfing Trump's. If there has ever been a mandate, Obama earned it, while Trump has a near loss to hang his hat on. Yet Republicans opposed and obstructed Obama at every step while spreading lies and slurs against him.

Well we clearly have a different perspective about recent history and different ideas about what a good future would look like.

If i was rich, I would not be living in nowhere MS. I'm here because it is cheap. If I was voting to maximize my stock portfolio I would vote for Hillary who was viewed as being in the bag for wall street and big business. Recall that the stock market fell for a week after Comey re-opened the email investigation, then started rising again after Comey flip-flopped again and said "never mind".  The stock market sure looked like it wanted Hillary.  It gapped down on the first open after trump won, then recovered when they realized it wasn't as bad as everybody's nightmare scenario.

I don't think Trump even knows exactly what he will do, and he has to get congress to go along. I suspect Ryan will be crafting a lot of the tax reform and budget stuff. He has invested years into working on that.

If the voters felt like Pres Obama was doing a great job and the world was in a better place why didn't more people vote for Hillary, who effectively promised to carry on his programs?

I feel like I've been stuck in a bad remake of ground hog day, arguing the same political arguments over and over for the last 8 years.

Can't we all just get along?

JR

 

[pucho812]

Pucho, you are so right....

He does get it and I have experienced exactly the same thing from my left wing friends for years.

While I'm at it, well done for starting this thread, you spotted this way early.

Best
DaveP

well discussion is the only way to reach a solution. Yelling and forcing does not win any friends or arguments.
I just wanted good discussion.

 

[mattiasNYC]

You might as well, as you can't re-educate them overnight, you may just have to wait until that generation dies out.  Wait and see if he's on their side before you give up hope, they might turn out to be more disillusioned than you over his term.


I only heard Obama and Clinton saying give him a chance, maybe they know the real score more than you do.

DaveP

Again, no offense, but you're missing the point in exactly the way a lot of white people ALWAYS seem to miss the point.

This is NOT an intellectual exercise, this is about the practical effects of what is going on. It isn't about me ignoring the views of some random backwards bigoted hicks in some town I'll never visit, it's about racists HERE spotting me and taking me for either a Mexican or Muslim and then ACTING on it. That's the fear.

And that is what you white men don't seem to ever get. You seem to think that every instance of racially inspired violence is just some random incident of violence with a "bad apple" acting out... it's all just a statistic. So I'll just spell it out: It's different when it's  YOU who risk being at the end of said discrimination.

Now do you understand what I'm saying?

You have a president that specifically targeted Mexicans and Muslims, while endorsing both torture and profiling. What do you suppose a person like me should feel like living in a city with a history of racially motivated police discrimination in violation of the US constitution?

This isn't just some intellectual exercise, and it's far worse for those who can't hide in the colorful masses in NYC.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-supporters-attack-muslims-hijab-hispanics-lgbt-hate-crime-wave-us-election-a7410166.html

Let's hope the above is a large majority of exaggeration or false claims, but I fear that's not the case. And in each instance it's not a matter of ignoring people's beliefs, it's about their actions, to them legitimized by the upcoming president through his rhetoric.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Surely they've been on "high alert" since the moment that Obama's first election win was announced.

Probably even before that... sadly. We have an unfortunate history of presidential assassination and multiple failed attempts.

A friend of mine's son works for the secret service in DC but I don't know his exact gig. 

JR

 

[pucho812]

Dude, I'm brown. Do you want me to ignore all the bigots in this nation who now think they have a president that's on their side? Those who now feel empowered by that?

Yeah, he might have been a liar who didn't care about what he said, I not only find that possible but probable, but that doesn't negate all the hate- and fear-mongering he did against people that look like me.

Don't frickin' tell me to relax about this. No offense, but I see an awful lot of white people telling minorities to chill out and give the guy a chance and to understand the poor white voters that finally found a vote in Trump. How about the damn opposite!?

As a half brown person  I can easily tell you the current climate  was started 8 years ago, when people like valerie  jarret said it was payback time. We currently have bred a generation known as millennials who have been taught that it's o.k. to throw a tantrum because the person they wanted lost.  Years of everyone gets a trophy for participation, years of safe spaces and safe words.  While they go have legal right to assemble and address their grievances, they do not have a right to behave like a bunch of monkeys tossing poo.  This is not going to end well for them, this is also not made any better with the constant CNN and MSNBC focus on them.  You want change, you are lucky to be in a country where you can make that happen by voting. according to numbers I have seen  around 50% of the voting populous did not vote.  If that is true then people can only blame themselves. They should already, this is causality in action. Acting like a common baboon at the zoo will not win them any favors or friends other then those who want to act like baboons with them.

 

[DaveP]

Now do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes, I do.
During 1975-77 I worked at a mission station in what is now called the Congo.  President Mobuto  Sese Seko, stirred up his people in much the same way as Trump did.  So much so, that I, as a white "Mondeli," had to put up with several kids taking a swipe at me with their machetes as I went past on my bike.

After my stint out there, (which included an Ebola outbreak) I came back to the UK.  If you feel so unsafe in the US, you may have to consider going back to Sweden, this is something only you can decide.  My guess is that the area you live in is so cosmopolitan that you will hardly stand out, but that is just a poorly informed guess.  You have my sympathy.

DaveP

 

[Gold]

It strikes me that Trump is mostly what he was raised as. An old time conservative Democrat. NYC is and was basically a one party town. Socially conservative and economically populist. I think he will drive both sides nuts.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The idea of wasting a public holiday on voting would not go down well .

All elections/referendums are on Sunday in France; nobody complains.

 

[mattiasNYC]

As a half brown person  I can easily tell you the current climate  was started 8 years ago, when people like valerie  jarret said it was payback time.

I'd actually like to thank you for pointing to the above. I think it actually does illuminate the situation.

As was pointed out by Dave before, I actually like data and facts, so I did what I often do:

1: google a relevant search term(s); in this case "Valerie Jarret" and "payback".

2: click links in order, and

--- first read the article
--- make sure to click on links that provide sources
--- navigate to the original link's/article's home page
--- read headlines of articles on that first page / home page

Know what I found for "Valerie Jarret" + "payback"?

A) An investigation into the claims which found nothing other than unsubstantiated claims all eventually sourcing the same unproven claim.

B) A bunch of links all doing the above (i.e. if one doesn't trust "RightWingWatch" one can go through the exercise oneself, which is what I did) which leads to the exact same conclusion; no clear source of her saying it, just a bunch of bloggers etc repeating a story they heard from someone who had anonymous info that she said it.

(incidentally; the second link shows a guy perpetuating this story, and when going to his home page his second news story is how Clinton rigged the election and how there's been massive voting fraud.... lol...  but that was nov 8, the day after, after the win, he's proudly telling us how electing Trump averted World War III... you can't make this stuff up, I tell ya

although "Signs Of Divine Intervention In Trump Victory" probably takes the cake as far as first page content goes on these sites)

So, this is how it usually goes in these right-wing circles. I've seen it for over a decade. On a sort of sub-culture level word spreads about what someone said, and by virtue of sheer volume of reports it is assumed to be true. However, all of those reports eventually point directly or through other links to the very same source. There aren't several independent reports of the same event, there are several reports about that one initial report. And, as should be obvious, that initial report then needs to be proven, which it very often isn't.

So here we are, having yet again proven how facts are ultimately completely irrelevant, and that all that matters is the story.

Exactly why Trump won.

Years of everyone gets a trophy for participation, years of safe spaces and safe words.  While they go have legal right to assemble and address their grievances, they do not have a right to behave like a bunch of monkeys tossing poo.  This is not going to end well for them, this is also not made any better with the constant CNN and MSNBC focus on them.  You want change, you are lucky to be in a country where you can make that happen by voting. according to numbers I have seen  around 50% of the voting populous did not vote.  If that is true then people can only blame themselves. They should already, this is causality in action. Acting like a common baboon at the zoo will not win them any favors or friends other then those who want to act like baboons with them.

There's something disgustingly familiar about the above.

 

[nielsk]

While it is true that Trump is a deplorable person, really the textbook example of the worst qualities exhibited  white males in the USA, this in of itself is not a crime.
Conspiring with a foreign power to influence the outcome of an election IS a crime, and there is clear proof he is guilty of this.
He should be held accountable for it.
Accountability is the primary means of actually routing out corruption in government.
Of course, it will take impeachment to move this case forward, and given the gerrymandered districts across the USA as a result of  Republican efforts, the required 2/3ds senate majority required to  impeach will be a real challenge to achieve.

 

[john12ax7]

I can certainly understand why people are offended by Trump. But why is it that when Democrats make disparaging remarks about minorities they get a pass?

And why do people only want to root out crimes and corruption when it's the other side doing it?

95% of the voters chose a shady unfit corrupt possibly criminal candidate. To me that is astounding.

 

[desol]

People are animals guided by a destructive sub-conscious brain. The only way to fix it is proper parenting and education.

Both of which are apparently lacking on planet earth.

 

[mattiasNYC]

I can certainly understand why people are offended by Trump. But why is it that when Democrats make disparaging remarks about minorities they get a pass?

I don't think this is a Republican / Democrat issue. But I'm curious to hear examples of the above.

 

[iomegaman]

I think this article is spot on...MOST of what I see in the political arena is mimetic desire on steroids...rene Girard advanced his theories of mimeticism and they are generally spot on...

But this article gives a good perspective on Trump and Brexit...

http://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-autumn-2016--issue-no-8/populism-as-a-backlash-against-globalization

 

[mattiasNYC]

I think this article is spot on...MOST of what I see in the political arena is mimetic desire on steroids...rene Girard advanced his theories of mimeticism and they are generally spot on...

But this article gives a good perspective on Trump and Brexit...

http://www.cirsd.org/en/horizons/horizons-autumn-2016--issue-no-8/populism-as-a-backlash-against-globalization

Interesting read, thanks so much for posting. And I read upon Girard as well, also interesting.

 

[DaveP]

Very good article.
"Populism isn't Fascism"
The rapid rise of immigration and globalisation looks to be the main cause, since 1970.

The "Occupy wall street" movement (anti-globalisation) seems strange bedfellows with Trumps followers.

DaveP

 

[lassoharp]

It strikes me that Trump is mostly what he was raised as. An old time conservative Democrat. NYC is and was basically a one party town. Socially conservative and economically populist. I think he will drive both sides nuts.

Agreed on him likely driving both sides nuts.  And I'll add to that - let us all hope so and that it is a prelude to change.


One thing Trump has proven to be is unpredictable.    If the law of averages plays out and he manages to behave as good as he has poorly then this might be something to look forward.  Hard to get much worse.

His unspoken motto seems to have been "I'll prove you wrong".  Pretty much everyone outside of his camp of loyal followers are expecting a disaster, even if they aren't saying it openly.  The reactions of the CBS tv crew pretty much said it all on election night  as they realized he was probably going to win.  You would have thought from their tones and expressions that they were reporting on another mass shooting or other grim event.

He made a curious slip of the tongue during his acceptance speech.  I can't recall the exact words but he was saying something about " . . . whether I'm here for 2,3,4 or the next 8 years . . . ".  Why on earth would one speculate 2 or 3 years for what is automatically a 4 year term?   

 

[Phrazemaster]

He made a curious slip of the tongue during his acceptance speech.  I can't recall the exact words but he was saying something about " . . . whether I'm here for 2,3,4 or the next 8 years . . . ".  Why on earth would one speculate 2 or 3 years for what is automatically a 4 year term? 

Wow creepy! From http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/us/politics/trump-speech-transcript.html?_r=0, here's the speech in context:

"So, it’s been what they call a historic event, but to be really historic, we have to do a great job. And I promise you that I will not let you down. We will do a great job. We will do a great job.

(APPLAUSE)

I look very much forward to being your president, and hopefully at the end of two years or three years or four years, or maybe even eight years. . .

(APPLAUSE)

. . . you will say, so many of you worked so hard for us, but you will say that — you will say that that was something that you really were very proud to do and I can. . .

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: Thank you very much.

And I can only say that while the campaign is over, our work on this movement is now really just beginning."