T
could have been worse... An old friend of mine tells a story about a military prank (he served in viet nam) involving an outhouse and explosives. Talk about sh__ hitting the fan. ;DGene Pink said:I'll bet he was angry, you should have let him out first.
-The reason why Silicon Valley's "innovation" doesn't show up in productivity data is b/c they redirect money from the rest of the economy.
-Their business model is monopolization, labor exploitation, and rent extraction. Why would we expect that to be productive??
-Oh, I forgot regulatory arbitrage.
-do you include taxes in regulatory arbitrage
-Yes.
-And shift profits offshore
JohnRoberts said:idiots...
JohnRoberts said:(did you mean to write "chanting").I regret that one woman died, and I regret that 2 police officers died. I also regret that about 100 people died from auto accidents a day. I will gladly condemn all hate crimes (again, but please don't run the PC playbook on me)
JohnRoberts said:. SInce the 1930s there has been an american nazi party (ANP) promoting hate, bigotry, and ignorance (Socialist/ Nationalist). After the founder (Rockwell) was assassinated in 1967 the organization broke up, and since then many smaller groups have used the name (and iconography). Since the ANP philosophy has socialist roots, why is this being attached to the right? (rhetorical ....probably the populism).
JohnRoberts said:Again stop claiming I said things I haven't. These people are disgusting, just like any and all other hate groups are disgusting. If anything their growth recently is coming from extra media attention.
JohnRoberts said:Statements from POTUS need to be more single minded and concise, as anything even slightly more nuanced will get twisted around and used to attack him with by an unfriendly media. President Trump's Jewish son-in-law seems inconsistent with his imaginary nazi sympathies.
JohnRoberts said:This is a slippery slope when we start to apply modern mores to erase past history. Maybe place some new plaques under these old statues adding contemporary statements. Some of these confederate generals were highly honored military commanders for the US before the civil war.
JohnRoberts said:Several of our country's founders were slave owners and that doesn't make them, or the constitution they wrote bad.
pucho812 said:What about the Morrill tariff enacted in 1861?
What about northern states that never left the union which were slave states?
What about the 2860 census that listed half a million slaves in the north?
What about the emancipation proclamation and how it did not free northern slaves?
What about Lincoln who would have left slavery alone had the union been preserved?
What about the control in d.c. And how the north wanted to keep it?
There are a lot of questions and answer that all add up to the war between the states. There is not one cause, despite what history teaches now days. It's not so cut and dried.
JohnRoberts said:Modern media seems a little too inclined to promote partisan agendas instead of objective factual reportage.
JohnRoberts said:There are real terror events going on around the world and we are instead relitigating the civil war by applying modern cultural standards to behavior by our ancestors hundreds of years ago.
JohnRoberts said:Not sure where this PC surge will end.... We thought the "redskins" was the most objectionable part of the "Washington Redskins" team name, but after George Washington gets declared a racist white supremacist, they'll have to rename our nation's capital too.
You can't stop putting words in my mouth... Since you ask.... news reportage should be objective, not colored by personal bias and agenda.mattiasNYC said:"Literal accuracy". Is that what you're looking for? I think that was the term you used. Don't parse what POTUS says for "literal accuracy".
So really what you are concerned with is hearing facts that jive with what you want to hear, and everything else is just anti-Trump partisan PC bs.
I pointed out the death of the two police officers because it was pretty much ignored in all the commentary I saw on social media. Their lives matter too. All 3 lives matter.Like the white supremacist that drove his car into a crowd killing a woman? That kind of "real" terror? The kind of event where you lamented the death of police officers but not the woman until someone asked you?
again stop claiming to know what I think or mean.The kind where you don't want to call a Nazi a Nazi because he's just an "idiot" instead? That kind of event? The one where they were marching with Nazi AND confederate flags?
Modern cultural standards and at least a little perspective. Apparently these hate groups tried to mount a huge demonstration but only got a modest number (hundreds?). In Spain more than half a million people protested against the recent terror attack (that would have been far worse if the idiot terrorists didn't blow themselves up making bombs for the attack. Yes they are all idiots. After they blew up their bombs prematurely all they had left was rental vehicles.That's the kind of event we should "apply modern cultural standards"? Or no?
I can't claim to speak for all white people. In fact I try not to think in those terms. That racial division is promoted by some (many) to gain political capital.For non-white people this isn't just about being PC, this is about being safe and it's about equality.
divide the nation into opposing sides.
JohnRoberts said:You can't stop putting words in my mouth..."Literal accuracy". Is that what you're looking for? I think that was the term you used. Don't parse what POTUS says for "literal accuracy".
JohnRoberts said:Parsing Trump's tweets for literal accuracy will keep the fact checkers employed, while also changing the subject.
JohnRoberts said:I pointed out the death of the two police officers because it was pretty much ignored in all the commentary I saw on social media. Their lives matter too. All 3 lives matter.
JohnRoberts said:again stop claiming to know what I think or mean.
I called the self described NAZI, white supremacist demonstrators IDIOTS because that is what they are. Not because I somehow support any of the numerous fringe groups that our open society protects free speech from (ANTIFA are idiots too).
JohnRoberts said:I see this event as just the most recent political wrangling of high profile events to pin it on POTUS for political gain. It is no secret that Trump is unartful in his messaging. I do not think he is racist, but he is like that old uncle at thanksgiving who says whatever is on his mind for better and worse. A hyper-critical media have a field day with his every comment.
I have long argued that words matter but it seems we are in an alternate (PC) reality where language used takes on a life of its own with more significance than facts.mattiasNYC said:You can't stop putting words in my mouth...
You're welcome.
- - - interestingly enough, at the top of that page, I complained that POTUS didn't say a word about the racism against brown people after a terrorist shooting in Olathe, Kansas. The suspect said he shot and killed the Iranians. I made the point that that's what the rhetoric gets us. In your answer again you avoided being too PC by calling the shooter "a loser" rather than a "terrorist" or "racist" or whatever.
I think I already did for across the nation. Local news that isn't about the partisan conflict is hard to find with search engines focussed on the drama.I'm sure you could find other people who died in the area that day.
Um no... the police were in the air because of the rally, so they died trying to protect civilians. Arguably using your logic they died because of racist ideology too.Their lives matter too, don't they? But the only person who died because of ideology was the girl, nobody else. The cops died because apparently someone doesn't know how to fly a chopper properly.
what matters to you and me are not necessarily the same thing.Why didn't you call them "men"? They were also men. Or "between 4'5" and 6'5"? That's probably also true. If you're going to pick out something of value to identify people or group them together then it's worth using a descriptor that matters. Nazi does. Idiot doesn't get you very far.
I would try to avoid idiots prone to violence no matter what their ideology is. I have actually lived in cities before and did some stupid stuff going places I wasn't welcome (but apparently I survived that too).Imagine for a second that you're not white. You're walking in a city you don't know, and you're on the phone getting guidance from a friend. He understands you're heading into an area and says "The people in that neighborhoods are idiots". Would you prefer to hear that or "The people in that hood are white supremacists"? I'd say the latter is a tad more important. Or pretend you're a Jew and the area is filled with anti-semites. "Idiot" could be anything. Anti-semite would be relevant.
you are getting harder to follow, are you angry?I'm detecting a pattern. It's the same patter and argument I've seen when "people" point to crime statistics of black people. Why point out that they're black. Because it's true. Uhm. Ok. I don't smell any fish at all, nor see anything even remotely resembling ducks.
I would vote for Trump again tomorrow, but I wish he would filter himself more to give his detractors less ammunition. The media seems out of control feeding on positive feedback inside their own echo chamber with progressively more ridiculous claims that I decline to repeat."unartful messaging"..... "literal accuracy".....
Just when does the spade become a spade in you eyes John? Ever?
I would have bet money that Hillary would win, while i did vote "against" her. Trump in my judgement won because of a ground swell push-back against all elite politicians, not just against democrats. He is less republican than many would like (He's from NY after all).And as for political gain - you didn't really complain much when he flirted with these divisive forces during the campaign, did you? Most of what I see is "oh, he should lay off twitter", not because of what he says, but because he says it.
DaveP said:have no intention of trying to change them, or trying to back you into a corner over them. I would like to see you accept JR's opinions in the same spirit.
DaveP said:Trump was trying to occupy the middle ground over his Charlottesville comments, but there are so few occupants of that territory nowadays that it turned out negative for him.
DaveP said:I hate the Nazis and everything they stand for, but I have no time for the militant Left either.
DaveP said:Matt,
While I'm generally pleased to see you back on this forum, I can't say it's edifying to see you laying into JR all the time.
What good does it do except foster an unpleasant atmosphere?
JohnRoberts said:I have long argued that words matter but it seems we are in an alternate (PC) reality where language used takes on a life of its own with more significance than facts.
JohnRoberts said:the police were in the air because of the rally, so they died trying to protect civilians.
JohnRoberts said:Arguably using your logic they died because of racist ideology too.
JohnRoberts said:what matters to you and me are not necessarily the same thing.
JohnRoberts said:you are getting harder to follow, are you angry?
JohnRoberts said:I wish he would filter himself more to give his detractors less ammunition.
JohnRoberts said:Matt just seems a little angry. If he keeps up the personal attacks I will have to ignore him because these are not rational fact based criticisms of me (IMO), and I am already repeating myself (something else I do not enjoy).
Classic Matt: Show me where I said you had to accept my views? All I said was that we should all respect people enough to allow them their own opinions. Crushing free thought and free speech is the tactic of the extreme left and right,viz. Hitler and Stalin.There's this funny thing where you conservatives whine about being PC, yet when it comes to your own religion or your own political views we apparently have to accept them. Sorry, while I accept your rights to think whatever you want I'm under absolutely zero obligation to respect your views or your actions.
JohnRoberts said:Actually in this hyper partisan media environment it hasn't even stopped raining in Texas while partisan spinners are already dredging up old Sandy relief votes in congress to divide the nation into opposing sides.
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