EQU47 Mic Bodies | Orders open on January 19th 2013

[Rossi]

Okay, if I understood things correct by now, the issue is with only the top portion of the basket, the top layer not being rotated with respect to the the two layers beneath. I'm not sure that's really disturbing. I mean, let's face it, most of the clones such as the Wunder don't even have the correct arch in the basket top.

Skylar, I think we need a close up pic so we can see for ourselves, if it looks weird to us. If it looks okay to the takers, let's just move on, and you can fix the issue in the next batch. Can we all agree on that?

 

[Skylar]

I'll get some pictures this evening now that my camera batteries are charged...I know, lame excuse!

 

[JW]

Yeah, I'd say if the bodies are cheaper because of this issue, then that's fine. But for the folks who already paid, we all paid in full according to what we thought we would be getting, and if it's not right, then it's not right. I say try to get 'em for a reasonable discount.

 

[Skylar]

Lucky # 7


If you look closely at the right edge of the body tube, you can just barely make out the vertical banding issue.
This is a hard thing to photograph...you kind of have to get the light to hit it just right.



Here's the side mesh; it's totally correct.




And here's the top mesh as it will normally appear when the body is assembled.




Note that in the above pictures you can't really tell that anything is wrong with the top mesh...
until you remove the headbasket and have a gander through the top.


The outermost layer is supposed to be biased 45 degrees with respect to the two inner layers, but it clearly is not.

 

[fazeka]

Hi Skylar,

For the most part, I could live with it.

The top mesh non-bias issue is obvious when the headbasket is removed. "Too much light" or "too much open spaces". It is kinda bothersome, but I am probably in the minority. I am a type A, so what the hell... 

But, yeah. See what you can do re: negotiating. All you can do is your best. And you've done one helluva job thus far.

Thanks again for all of this,
Chris

 

[plumsolly]

See what you can do re: negotiating. All you can do is your best. And you've done one helluva job thus far.

+1

Ben

 

[Rossi]

I ordered two bodies from the first batch, and I don't think it bothers me too much. The open area is about the same, so it shouldn't affect the sound. As far as the visual appearance is concerned, it's not an obvious flaw. The performer will look at the mic sideways, where everything is correct, and will not notice the top layer arrangement anyway.

I say, let's move on. Perhaps you can negotiate a small discount, which could be applied toward the shipping costs? To me it's a minor issue; you can always correct the error in the second batch.

 

[Arno]

Ok I think I get it now.
The top layer of the "dome" is, compared to many but not all U47's, correctly aligned.
But its inner layer is parallel to the outer layer instead of 45 angle.
But that is only visible when looking from the top with lots of light into the bottom right?
And even then, it's really not going to affect the acoustics of the head basket?

I'll have two

 

[1954U1]

The 0-degree orientation won't affect sound one bit anyway.

I'm not 100% sure about it..
Obviously, it 'd be worst if the side mesh orientation was 0-degree.
But some sound _comes_ through the top and hits the capsule..
Are we sure it is insignificant?

I'm thinking about re-selling my 2 bodies and waiting for the 2nd batch..
[about the remaining 4 cosmetical issues, I couldn't care less.]

What infuriates me is that literally years of Skylar [et al] work have been [partially, ok] trashed in some hours/minutes..

 

[KrIVIUM2323]

I'm thinking about re-selling my 2 bodies and waiting for the 2nd batch..

Sure they 'll find a new owner... count me in if you do!  :

 

[rodabod]

Skylar, given the manufacturer's situation (having built all these headbaskets, and knowing that they aren't making a massive profit already), I'd maybe be inclined to just negociate with them. I'd suggest trying to get a discount in some way. Maybe tell them that your client is refusing to pay.

Regarding the cosmetic issues, these will be insignificant once the mics get scratched. They aren't meant to be museum pieces (like a lot of real U47s!) The mesh in my mind is not significant. I very much doubt it will noticeably impeact the sound, but potentially decrease the rigidity minimally.

I think you've done an excellent job, and it will be slightly disappointing for you to not see a manufacturer do your research and work justice, however, if it feels like they won't budge, then just do the best you can.

Cheers,

Roddy

 

[12volts]

I have two on order from the first batch. I have pre-sold one, the other is still available for sale.
Please send me a PM if you interested.

Frank

 

[Kingston]

I'm not 100% sure about it..
Obviously, it 'd be worst if the side mesh orientation was 0-degree.
But some sound _comes_ through the top and hits the capsule..
Are we sure it is insignificant?

The worst thing that happens with the non-rotated area is knowing it's "wrong", and this leads to placebo hell.

Think about the physics involved with the sound passing through the three layers. You can do area math in some cad software. Start with aligning two unequal size meshes together and measure the total pass-through area. Then rotate one mesh and measure again, you will find out the total pass-through area does not change significantly. Add a third mesh and the difference fizzles into insignificance. And that's just in 2D.

 

[Rossi]

Seriously, who of you would have noticed, if Skylar hadn't told you?

The side mesh is correct, and that's what really counts as the capsule is directed there and because we look at it from the side.

Before you freak out about the effect the top mesh orientation might have on the sound, keep in mind that a lot of the basket sound coloration is due to the upper rim being in the way of the capsule. Look at the first picture I posted of my U47, if you look closely you see the silhouette of the capsule. Also keep in mind that most of you won't use a genuine Neumann capsule anyway, and THAT is the most significant part of the U47 sound.

In other words, there's really no point in worrying about the minuscule (if at all) effect the basket top lower mesh orientation may have on the sound unless you're using a genuine Neumann K47 (or vintage Berlin M7 if you can find a working specimen) and historically correct VF14/BV8-electrionics.

Folks, be realistic! We're dealing with stuff that is close to the original, but nothing we use (capsule, circuit, body) is the exact same thing found in a genuine U47. No need freak out over a minor visual detail.

 

[0dbfs]

Hey Skylar,

From a DIY standpoint, I am absolutely ecstatic.

From an anticipation standpoint, I am personally very excited to take delivery, complete my builds, and put these mic's into service. I also intend on ordering more in future runs.

From a business standpoint, one of your punch-list items was this specific biasing of the top-most mesh layers and they either ignored it or otherwise failed to address that particular point. If this does not require discount (at least to you) then what will it be on the next runs? Maybe discount negotiations for further runs could be discussed and agreed upon ahead of time for further runs?

Is it at all possible from what you know that the head-baskets were produced prior to them receiving your punch-list?

Fingers I say! (at least a pinkie...)

I am in with whatever you decide. 100%.

Best,
jonathan

PS. Thanks for seeing this through with your great attention to detail. Even if my input is a mere 1%, I would double or treble it without hesitation.

 

[1954U1]

Think about the physics involved with the sound passing through the three layers. You can do area math in some cad software. Start with aligning two unequal size meshes together and measure the total pass-through area. Then rotate one mesh and measure again, you will find out the total pass-through area does not change significantly. Add a third mesh and the difference fizzles into insignificance. And that's just in 2D.

I'm not thinking about the total pass-through area, yes its intuitive, it will be pretty the same.
I think about the waves behavior with 2 same-degree oriented meshes vs 2 meshes 45 degrees rotated.

I fear that I dont have the necessary math-acoustical skills to understand if the 2 different orientations can actually lead to significant differences.
Maybe there arent.. I wish for it to be so.
Have to better study the issue, perhaps.

Of course, I understand where the capsule is and the figures, and that we must take this into the account.


Edit:
about the wavelength: I know we're talking here about more than .5 cm, and that the inner mesh spacing is considerably less..
but, is this enough?

 

[0dbfs]

Seems that the wires in the mesh will act like a bunch of small polycylindrical diffusers. Scattering the interior reflections a certain way. If the interior surface of the dome is biased wrong by 45 degrees then this could be the difference between the diffuse field mostly reflecting back in towards the capsule sides or front/back. Especially since it is concave with respect to the capsule. Probably less critical from the outside in. But still.

Consider omni/cardioid/fig-eight configurations as well since those are directly related to how pressure-gradient at the membrane surface in that tiny-little-room/head-basket is electrically summed. I think the reflections focused from the dome interior down towards the capsule would be significant depending on whether the internal mesh is on axis, or 45 deg off axis. Consider the total interior surface area of the dome compared to the total interior surface area of front and back. even if it's as low as 25% surface area that is significant when looking at the overall interior of the system and the physical pressure points at the front and back of the capsule.

Is the interior layer biased properly with respect to the capsule? The outer layer would be part of this interior response but probably less so. Mostly functional for protection.

Splitting wires here? Yes. But it's fun!

Best,
j

 

[pasarski]

In other words, there's really no point in worrying about the minuscule (if at all) effect the basket top lower mesh orientation may have on the sound unless you're using a genuine Neumann K47 (or vintage Berlin M7 if you can find a working specimen) and historically correct VF14/BV8-electrionics.

This is a very valid point. Even varioations between real K47/M7 are propably bigger than the effect of the top mesh.

If you guys decide to go for the "faulty" bodies but some one want's to back out, I'm ready to buy one.

 

[Kingston]

Oh wow. I thought I was anal-retentive when it comes to gear.

 

[simonlef]

Hi Skylar,

Seeing your photos today, I for one would be perfectly happy with the microphone bodies as they are. They look amazing. At this stage i do not feel that any of the current issues would be a limiting factor in the quality of my finished project.

On the other hand and as others have said, from a business point of view, I can fully understand the need to take this up with your manufacturer as they have not produced what you specified.

Thanks
Simon