EQU47 Mic Bodies | Orders open on January 19th 2013

[TheGuitarist]

These business men must be playing some seriously hard ball if discussions are still underway. Like has been stated, we don't know the exact situation, but they really must not have a leg to stand on with cutting corners.

 

[synchroman]

Hello Skylar:

Any updates.... Have the issues been resolved?

 

[Kingston]

I would also like to know what is going on and why this deal isn't going forward at all. How bad are those blemishes really? For $500 for two "ok" mic bodies, do we even care?

I propose we take a vote.

Fighting with the Chinese is pointless. What we are witnessing is just their standard mode of business, and it was expected all along.

Quality or saving money, you can't have both. Want quality, you don't outsource to China. Because with the Chinese you can only save money and you can never have quality. I deal with them on daily basis professionally and that's just a fact of life we take into account with all our plans.

 

[Jim50hertz]

I've got an orginal U-47 (#38). They weren't rolling the metal for the bodies perfect,
so there are orginal pits in it. It still sounds beautiful blemishes and all.

I would also like to know what is going on and why this deal isn't going forward at all. How bad are those blemishes really? For $500 for two "ok" mic bodies, do we even care?

The mission critical component of the body for me is the headbasket, dimensions, mesh size and where the capsule sits.  If that's right, then we're in U47 (ish) territory sonically provided we throw in an appropriate head amp, tube configuration, capsule and transformer.  Thanks to Skylar's precision and tenacity, that seems to be the case. 

Interesting to note Winetree's comment on the QC of the original, and the  less than perfect finishing.  I'm sure in forty years time these won't look perfect and it won't even matter.

If it sounds great, it is great.  I'm not going to say I don't care what it looks like as I'm an aesthetic being but if I end up with something less than perfect, or blemished I won't be complaining.

Hell I'll drink a thirty year old lagavulin from a tin cup, dig?

Keep it up Skylar, yer a champ.

 

[Grooveteer]

Keep it up Skylar, yer a champ.

+1

 

[Skylar]

I thank you guys for your support and patience.

I think that quality can be achieved in China.
In fact, I know it can; I've seen it with my own eyes.
The company I work for during the day has products made in China, and we make the best in our industry.
Besides that, the EQU47 sample we approved for production has no flaws.

Anyway, what we're dealing with here is a quantity of 200.
If we were closer to 8000+/year, the story would be different.
With such a low quantity, they're just not willing to invest a lot of time and energy in meeting our demands...even if they're the ones who screwed up (which is the case in this instance).

I'm still actively negotiating with the factory.
The root of the issue is that they have already manufactured everything and don't want to toss all the units out and start again.

On one hand, I certainly understand not wanting to do something over and lose the time and money...
on the other hand, hey, they're the ones who f***ed up. They should do it again and get it right!


I've gotten them to agree to fix three of the issues:
[issue 1] body tube inner diameter is not milled all the way through
[solution] factory will take the units back to the lathe to mill them completely on the inside

[issue 2] top grille mesh is slightly deformed on a few units
[solution] factory will toss units that are deformed and provide only non-deformed units

[issue 3] some body tubes have slight blemishes/scratches
[solution] factory will toss units that have blemishes/scratches/handling marks and provide the "cleanest" units they can


The remaining issues are:
[issue 4] body tube has vertical "banding" or "striping" likely from jigs/tooling during the bead-blasting operation. this doesn't show up in photographs and is noticeable as you rotate the body under lighting. some body tubes exhibit this issue worse than others.
[factory says:] this is the best they can do; they cannot eliminate the "banding" effect

and the most critical issue in my opinion:
[issue 5] outermost wire cloth layer on the top mesh portion of the head basket is not offset at 45 degrees!
[factory says:] to fix this they have to remake all 200 headbaskets, which they really, really don't want to do.



I'm still having heated discussions with them on resolving this stuff, but in the interest of time we may have to cave on the last two issues.
We've been waiting entirely too long for these mic bodies (an understatement).
Please post your thoughts and opinions here.

 

[plumsolly]

and the most critical issue in my opinion:
[issue 5] outermost wire cloth layer on the top mesh portion of the head basket is not offset at 45 degrees!
[factory says:] to fix this they have to remake all 200 headbaskets, which they really, really don't want to do.

This does seem like the most critical of the issues and I would probably trade putting up with any or all of the other issues if this one might be resolved. I'm certainly anxious for my mic body, but I could stand a bit more waiting if you thought you might get somewhere on this issue through more negotiating. Also, I am sure you could sell all of the blemished bodies for some kind of a discount, so maybe offering to purchase those at a discounted rate so they are not a complete loss for the factory would help spur them in the right direction? Just a thought. Thanks for all your hard work - it is really appreciated. Best, Ben

 

[Kingston]

[issue 5] outermost wire cloth layer on the top mesh portion of the head basket is not offset at 45 degrees!

How bad is it?

 

[Skylar]

The mesh is offset by 0 degrees! It's aligned with the other two layers.

I'll take some pictures when I have a chance.

What kills me is that the first sample we got had this issue.
I noted it as a problem, and they fixed it in the second and third samples they sent (the third was the approved, "golden" sample).

I hate that it doesn't match the U47!
Realistically it may have little-to-no effect acoustically since it's the top mesh--not the side, cylindrical mesh where most sound enters.
But still...I can't tell you how frustrating it is that they got this wrong...again!

 

[fazeka]

I agree with plumsolly, the 0 degree offset of the mesh IS a biggie.

I'm kinda bummed out now. I mean, now the functionality of the mic is potentially being affected.

Me? If I had a priority list for them, it would be in this order:

Issue 5
Issue 1
Issue 2
Issue 3
Issue 4

Wishing you all the best to get them to man up and do the right thing.

Thanks again for your work, Skylar.

 

[Kingston]

Aww crap!   Yes indeed the 0-degree outer mesh is a show-stopper. The rest aren't too bad.

 

[radardoug]

Skylar, in the interests of moving it forward, what about making a new set of headbaskets and we all pay a bit more? Then we end up with two headbaskets each. If its another $20-50, its no big deal.

 

[fazeka]

Or another option is to try to get them to understand the 0 degree offset issue is now not just a cosmetic issue but a functional problem. You should hold their feet to the fire for that, especially since they demonstrated that they could resolve it with the second and third samples! That's just ethical business practice. No disrespect, just my 2.

 

[kilmister]

and the most critical issue in my opinion:
[issue 5] outermost wire cloth layer on the top mesh portion of the head basket is not offset at 45 degrees!
[factory says:] to fix this they have to remake all 200 headbaskets, which they really, really don't want to do.

I can live also with little cosmetic things but this is not acceptable under any circumstances.
They f***ed up - they pay.

-Paavo

 

[Kingston]

This one they might agree on:

1. negotiate a great discount for the 0-degree headbaskets and use them for some future forum not-quite-47-but-still-awesome-mic-body-discount-sale. I'm almost certain they will sell quite well for the folk around here, as not everyone is interested in a perfect clone, but just a great generic mic body. It means you would have to fork out a bit more cash upfront and have them make the rest of the mics bodies as well, but you could cut corners here. You already saw great interest on the not so perfect bodies on this thread alone.

2. Have them make *perfect* headbaskets for us who paid already.

 

[plumsolly]

I would probably even pre-pay for a scuffed body/not-rotated mesh unit if they were pretty cheap...

 

[Skylar]

Kingston, your "step 1" is what I've been working on the past few weeks.

I'm getting the whole "used car salesman" routine...

"That's way too low. I know we can't do that, but I'll go ahead and talk to my manager to see what he says."
<disappears for several days>

If I pay up-front for another round of 200 headbaskets that are (fingers crossed) perfect, that leaves me with 200 not quite perfect headbaskets.
Is there enough demand for that?


Side note...the headbasket is the most expensive part of the mic body; Half the cost is wrapped up the headbasket alone!

 

[zayance]

Side note...the headbasket is the most expensive part of the mic body; Half the cost is wrapped up the headbasket alone!

And they happen to screw that part, so stupid, anyway Skylar you have been one patient and perseverent guy, and i can understand the frustration, cheer up at the end everything will be good i'm sure, the samples on the pic were still very nice, it's very stupid that the most important part was done quickly without making sure when building, one worker with no right informations working fast because time is money etc... Beeing pushed by his boss or whatever, happens everyday...

 

[plumsolly]

If I pay up-front for another round of 200 headbaskets that are (fingers crossed) perfect, that leaves me with 200 not quite perfect headbaskets.
Is there enough demand for that?

I think there may be if the price was low enough. I think the angle would be something like "I'll buy the blemished headbaskets and bodies for half of your cost of producing them. That way you don't have to throw product away (my initial offer) and I don't have to pay full price for something I didn't order (your initial offer)" If they agree to something like that, then you may be able to obtain the blemished ones for a price at which getting rid of 200 of them will not be a problem. Even if something like this was feasible, though - there would be the issue of 150 or so blemished headbaskets w/o bodies which would have to be resolved. Sorry if I am way off the mark here - I am certainly no businessman. Thanks again for your work on this, Ben

 

[grantlack]

I think interest in the blemished headbaskets would depend on the method of mesh fixation. I'd love to split one apart for paint and proper re-assembly, but if it's prohibitively tough to do revision surgery then they're far less appealing.