moamps
Well-known member
barclaycon said:
Hi,
A while ago some kind soul posted the schematic of the xx24 console input channel in the GroupDIY Gmail account.
You may find it useful.
Regards,
Milan
Harrison 4032 restoration?!
- Thread starter nrgrecording
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Hi,
A while ago some kind soul posted the schematic of the xx24 console input channel in the GroupDIY Gmail account.
You may find it useful.
Regards,
Milan
nrgrecording
Well-known member
[quote author=barclaycon]I also worked at Marcus Music where they had Harrison desks and Leif Mases did a lot of modifications to them. He replaced the DBX VCA's with a small PCB designed around the Valley Audio module and added extra sends etc.[/quote]
I like those stories!
Where is Leif now? He could probably tell something interesting about this console.
[quote author=barclaycon]I tried to get hold of the EQ schematic a while ago - perhaps you might like to scan the circuit for us![/quote]
No problem. But I have to copy it from A3 to A4 to scan it. Or should I make a small pcb with the eq, filter, micpre, ouput and some breadboard space for the use with different transformers? I made a channelstrip of my old consoles (soundcraft2400), too.
[quote author=barclaycon]
In order to improve the headroom the console level on the Harrison was 10dB down which meant that at insert points on the patch the level was quite low.
This meant that things like Kepexes were quite noisy to use with this desk, even Urei's had to have the input level quite high to drive them.[/quote]
I have a Kepex II Rack and Ureis, too. But no one ever used a kepex gate since I bought it. : -10dB? So I can drive the output of the external gear harder than on other consoles? Is that a bug or a feature? ???
[quote author=barclaycon]
seems to be C&K snap-in front mount actuator No. J80
the snap-in actuator with frame would be No. J81
Maybe frame part.No. 615602263 can be used for pushbutton type J80[/quote]
Thanks Harpo! 8)
[quote author=ssltech]Now one day at Skycraft about six years ago, I was stopped in the parking lot by a British guy who saw my license plate and decided to ask if I was British also. It turned out that his name was Brian Carling, and that he was in charge of the production line at Harrison in the late 1970s. He remembered the 24 and the 32 series with affection, IIRC.[/quote]
I like those stories!!
[quote author=ssltech]He's now in broadcast I think, still based in the Orlando area... -Perhaps I'll look him up and invite him round for a cup of tea.[/quote]
Maybe you could invite him for a beer to this forum? :
Mhh... there are "MIC OUT" 1-40 on the patchbay. Is this the connection between the studios XLR inputs in the studio and the backside of the console (with a break contact just before the mic preamps) ? Thats cool. So someone could patch XLRs into a 8ch xlr preamp with ADC if he really wants to!? (if the console is vaporized)
Regards,
Frank.
I like those stories!
Where is Leif now? He could probably tell something interesting about this console.[quote author=barclaycon]I tried to get hold of the EQ schematic a while ago - perhaps you might like to scan the circuit for us![/quote]
No problem. But I have to copy it from A3 to A4 to scan it. Or should I make a small pcb with the eq, filter, micpre, ouput and some breadboard space for the use with different transformers? I made a channelstrip of my old consoles (soundcraft2400), too.
[quote author=barclaycon]
In order to improve the headroom the console level on the Harrison was 10dB down which meant that at insert points on the patch the level was quite low.
This meant that things like Kepexes were quite noisy to use with this desk, even Urei's had to have the input level quite high to drive them.[/quote]
I have a Kepex II Rack and Ureis, too.
But no one ever used a kepex gate since I bought it. : -10dB? So I can drive the output of the external gear harder than on other consoles? Is that a bug or a feature? ??? [quote author=barclaycon]
seems to be C&K snap-in front mount actuator No. J80
the snap-in actuator with frame would be No. J81
Maybe frame part.No. 615602263 can be used for pushbutton type J80[/quote]
Thanks Harpo! 8)
[quote author=ssltech]Now one day at Skycraft about six years ago, I was stopped in the parking lot by a British guy who saw my license plate and decided to ask if I was British also. It turned out that his name was Brian Carling, and that he was in charge of the production line at Harrison in the late 1970s. He remembered the 24 and the 32 series with affection, IIRC.[/quote]
I like those stories!!
[quote author=ssltech]He's now in broadcast I think, still based in the Orlando area... -Perhaps I'll look him up and invite him round for a cup of tea.[/quote]
Maybe you could invite him for a beer to this forum? :
Mhh... there are "MIC OUT" 1-40 on the patchbay. Is this the connection between the studios XLR inputs in the studio and the backside of the console (with a break contact just before the mic preamps) ? Thats cool. So someone could patch XLRs into a 8ch xlr preamp with ADC if he really wants to!? (if the console is vaporized)
Regards,
Frank.
SSLtech
Well-known member
nrgrecording said:I like those stories!
He's living outside of London, designing and building Maselec gear... the VERY finest level of alanog mastering equipment!
I see him at trade shows. I engineered a couple of projects for him back when he used to produce stuff for several well-known British heavy rock acts. Last time I saw him was at the last New York AES. -I very specifically prodded him gently for info on what he did to the 4032s. -He joined two together at Polar, he modded the meters for "Higher-of" display, with peak at low signal levels and RMS at higher levels... an odd combo, but it worked very well with the 3M digital machine AND the analog machines which were in the same room at the same time. -For VIDEO of that console and those machines, there's a link in either "whatever works" or "the saloon" over at the ProSoundWeb forums. -Oddly enough everyone else was interested in Mike Chapman and Agnetha... I was interested in the 4032!!!
Sure... Let me see if I can find his card... it was about years ago...Maybe you could invite him for a beer to this forum? :
Mhh... there are "MIC OUT" 1-40 on the patchbay. Is this the connection between the studios XLR inputs in the studio and the backside of the console (with a break contact just before the mic preamps) ? Thats cool. So someone could patch XLRs into a 8ch xlr preamp with ADC if he really wants to!? (if the console is vaporized)
Precisement!
Yes, you can also cross-patch mics (assuming that the contacts are wired FULL-normal, so that there's no impedance paralleling) or patch DI outputs in the control room, etc.
Keith
SSLtech
Well-known member
PSW link:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/27403/2172/
Just to complete the loop, I added a link to your site, Frank!
;D
Keith
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/27403/2172/
Just to complete the loop, I added a link to your site, Frank!
;D
Keith
The remainder of the Marcus Music TA101 dBx replacement modules ended up in Gus Dudgeon's MCI JH542, because Leif went to work at The Mill Studio after Marcus Music.
I did work on the 3232B from Polar, which had been at Studio Bohus to start with Tobias Lindall, another name that crops up on these forums regularly. Yes, the modules did have various modifications, but sadly not to all of them. This 3232B console was used as a test bed for the bigger console that Polar had, so we had to spend some time making the modules the same again. This was when that 3232B console came to a studio in London.
Also, anyone who tells anyone you can use a 4741 quad chip for audio, mmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't think so.
Thank you for the picture of the black overlay. That's a C console. Also, on the 32A, the FET card is much bigger, despite being the same circuit.
I did work on the 3232B from Polar, which had been at Studio Bohus to start with Tobias Lindall, another name that crops up on these forums regularly. Yes, the modules did have various modifications, but sadly not to all of them. This 3232B console was used as a test bed for the bigger console that Polar had, so we had to spend some time making the modules the same again. This was when that 3232B console came to a studio in London.
Also, anyone who tells anyone you can use a 4741 quad chip for audio, mmmmmmmmmmmm. I don't think so.
Thank you for the picture of the black overlay. That's a C console. Also, on the 32A, the FET card is much bigger, despite being the same circuit.
barclaycon
Well-known member
Searching for it now.
Martin B. Kantola
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2005
- Messages
- 209
porkyc said:
This is the one I have in my studio! Lots of work to sort out some weird stuff, but now it's doing great. Input modules B-series, master modules A-series, so 3232AB according to Harrison. My 4832C console has gold can VCA's, but to me the Allison ones in the old one sound pretty good. Any explanation for this?
porkyc said:
Why not? Data here: http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn2922.pdf
Speaking of quad chips, we had a little listening session yesterday, comparing my customized module (still with the original VCA) to the favourite vocal channel. The Master was pleased with what he heard, a noticeable improvement in clarity. This is the only replacement chip I've tried that doesn't have any non-musical qualities introduced. Hopefully within a few days we'll be able to test the VCA I'm breadboarding. Sorry to hear that you're so busy Keith, if I can't get the thing to work I'll email you a schematic or post it here.
Martin
Martin B. Kantola
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2005
- Messages
- 209
nrgrecording said:I just built a small psu (+15,-15,+18,-18,-24). 'cause I was jelous because of Martins original harrisn test-rig.
That's very cool! What I have is not orginal Harrison, but custom built with edge connectors to fit a module. Other features are line and mic inputs, a stereo line output and a power supply that works internationally (100-240VAC).
Love those blue connector rulers, can I buy a set?
Martin
nrgrecording
Well-known member
[quote author=Martin B. Kantola[/quote]
Love those blue connector rulers, can I buy a set?[/quote]
No, but you can send me your adress and I'll send them to you for free.
At the moment I only have the rulers for the I/O modules (connector 1,2,3). I think I'll also make some for the Mastermodules. Thats 12 different rulers. 15 in total.
Are the A, B and C channel compatible? I found some changes in my document I think.
This is from my docs:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/Harrison_IO_Modul.pdf
Another idea is to print them and put them into a laminating machine for paper sheets and cut them.
And if you want to label all other cables of your harrison... you could use these: (labels with cable retainer) thats just some hundreds.
I did this with the tape send/returns and external equipment.
Frank.
Love those blue connector rulers, can I buy a set?[/quote]
No, but you can send me your adress and I'll send them to you for free.
At the moment I only have the rulers for the I/O modules (connector 1,2,3). I think I'll also make some for the Mastermodules. Thats 12 different rulers. 15 in total.
Are the A, B and C channel compatible? I found some changes in my document I think.
This is from my docs:
http://www.nrgrecording.de/Harrison_IO_Modul.pdf
Another idea is to print them and put them into a laminating machine for paper sheets and cut them.
And if you want to label all other cables of your harrison... you could use these: (labels with cable retainer) thats just some hundreds.
I did this with the tape send/returns and external equipment.
Frank.
nrgrecording
Well-known member
I just heard of a 4032 from a television station here in germany... it had been serviced completely... after that it was disposed. :-[
Also heard that the engineer of the euphonix owns one harrison? ;D
And someone told me that they switched the desk on one day before the recording begins and never turned them off during the days of recording. Any experience with this?
Frank.
Also heard that the engineer of the euphonix owns one harrison? ;D
And someone told me that they switched the desk on one day before the recording begins and never turned them off during the days of recording. Any experience with this?
Frank.
Nice work Frank.
A bit of topic, but does anyone know how the Raven MR4 compare with the 32 series?
On the schematics, the eq looks at least quite similar.
There is one for sale now at ebay for 5500$...not mine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250395656627&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
Joe
A bit of topic, but does anyone know how the Raven MR4 compare with the 32 series?
On the schematics, the eq looks at least quite similar.
There is one for sale now at ebay for 5500$...not mine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250395656627&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
Joe
The MR4 was Harrison's attempt at minimilism. Some might suggest the MR3 was minimal enough and the MR4 took the concept a couple of stages too far. THe Raven was a "cost effective/ aggressively priced version using (politely) cheaper components.
Cleaner sounding because the circuitry was based on the MR1/2/3 stuff, but I found difficult to use.
Pricewise............ one too many zeroes!
Most serious analog studios did not turn their gear off. The studio I worked at had both MCI and Harrison then the inevitable SSL. Turned off at Christmas, that was it. Same thing applies to digital consoles. Even the MCI machines were left on.
Leave the thing on, if you can't afford the electricity, you can't afford to do it. Sorry.
Any of the major studios in London, Marcus, Morgan, Townhouse, AIR, CBS/Sony, Redbus, Videosonics, just never turned the stuff off.
Cleaner sounding because the circuitry was based on the MR1/2/3 stuff, but I found difficult to use.
Pricewise............ one too many zeroes!
Most serious analog studios did not turn their gear off. The studio I worked at had both MCI and Harrison then the inevitable SSL. Turned off at Christmas, that was it. Same thing applies to digital consoles. Even the MCI machines were left on.
Leave the thing on, if you can't afford the electricity, you can't afford to do it. Sorry.
Any of the major studios in London, Marcus, Morgan, Townhouse, AIR, CBS/Sony, Redbus, Videosonics, just never turned the stuff off.
nrgrecording
Well-known member
Iam in contact with the nice guys at harrison at the moment... 8)
Anyone knows something about this Line Driver..... ?
It replaces the output section. Has a NE5532 and something labeled "CTS8621" on the pcb. It was made in 1985.
Is this the transformerless output stage where Dave Harrison asked Bruce Swedien if he likes it or not? ???
I just cleaned and replaced the 5 edge connectors... I can even repair a single contact at the edge connectors now.
http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/IMG_2742.jpg
And I started to do some redraw of the channel... because there is no silk screen on the channels... or do one of you have a paper about this?
I only have a very hard/not readable copy of the component placement/silk screen.
Keith... what about new frontpanels to rack up your modules?
You can cutdown the modules. But a new arrangement of the potentiometers would be good. Otherwise half of the panel is unused in the end. It would need
two small push button pcbs for the old switches. The potentiometers should screwed to the panel... the screws of the cue pots could be used for the level pots (because they didn't have any screws while they're soldere to the pcb directly)
Frank.
Anyone knows something about this Line Driver..... ?
It replaces the output section. Has a NE5532 and something labeled "CTS8621" on the pcb. It was made in 1985.
Is this the transformerless output stage where Dave Harrison asked Bruce Swedien if he likes it or not? ???
I just cleaned and replaced the 5 edge connectors... I can even repair a single contact at the edge connectors now.
http://www.nrgrecording.de/assets/images/IMG_2742.jpg
And I started to do some redraw of the channel... because there is no silk screen on the channels... or do one of you have a paper about this?
I only have a very hard/not readable copy of the component placement/silk screen.
Keith... what about new frontpanels to rack up your modules?
You can cutdown the modules. But a new arrangement of the potentiometers would be good. Otherwise half of the panel is unused in the end. It would need
two small push button pcbs for the old switches. The potentiometers should screwed to the panel... the screws of the cue pots could be used for the level pots (because they didn't have any screws while they're soldere to the pcb directly)
Frank.
![[silent:arts]](https://cdn.imagearchive.com/groupdiy/data/avatars/m/0/172.jpg?1620371656){kind=avatar}
[silent:arts]
Well-known member
this is Frank like we know him ;D
Thank you for the picture of the line driver.
In the late 70's a German guy named Peter Leunig came round to everybody with a cross-coupled balanced line driver that eventually became the SSM2142. Before that, MCI/Soundcraft used the circuit and did it with 5532s and 8-SIL resistor arrays. Neve and SSL felt that the Leunig circuit needed some trimming, so their versions have some pots on them. (SSL Tech can clarify re: the SSL 4/6K implementation). Most manufacturers copied the circuit, ie did not PAY for this circuit, and failed to understand that the sensing pair had to be the outside world side of the output coupling capacitors in order for the circuit to work correctly. (MCI and Trident/Toft consoles being very guilty of this!)
Harrison went a different route, they used 5532 (later Moto 33078) and had cap and Res trimmers. The CTS chip is actually a laser trimmed resistor array. You will notice that there are hardly any "normal" resistors on the board. This is definitely MR4/S10 land. Harrison still uses this circuit on the analog S12/MPC products, but any stuff done in the last decade would use the SSM2142; it's easier/cheaper.
Harrison stuff from MR1/2/3/4 onwards used a lot of these (different) resistor arrays, it was actually cheaper to have these arrays made to your own spec and quicker to fit than using standard stuff, and the laser trimming meant the circuits were more accurate gainwise.
My apologies for digressing from the original 32 series thread.
In the late 70's a German guy named Peter Leunig came round to everybody with a cross-coupled balanced line driver that eventually became the SSM2142. Before that, MCI/Soundcraft used the circuit and did it with 5532s and 8-SIL resistor arrays. Neve and SSL felt that the Leunig circuit needed some trimming, so their versions have some pots on them. (SSL Tech can clarify re: the SSL 4/6K implementation). Most manufacturers copied the circuit, ie did not PAY for this circuit, and failed to understand that the sensing pair had to be the outside world side of the output coupling capacitors in order for the circuit to work correctly. (MCI and Trident/Toft consoles being very guilty of this!)
Harrison went a different route, they used 5532 (later Moto 33078) and had cap and Res trimmers. The CTS chip is actually a laser trimmed resistor array. You will notice that there are hardly any "normal" resistors on the board. This is definitely MR4/S10 land. Harrison still uses this circuit on the analog S12/MPC products, but any stuff done in the last decade would use the SSM2142; it's easier/cheaper.
Harrison stuff from MR1/2/3/4 onwards used a lot of these (different) resistor arrays, it was actually cheaper to have these arrays made to your own spec and quicker to fit than using standard stuff, and the laser trimming meant the circuits were more accurate gainwise.
My apologies for digressing from the original 32 series thread.
SIXTYNINER
Well-known member
HELLO FRANK
wellcomeback .........
nice job,
in the past
i have worked with a 4032 for some year (noise apart) it is a very musical sound console
the color about sound come from transformers , .........unfortunately one day the IC (aboard the ch strips)
that control the configuration status of console , began to die .........and the boss of studio tryed to find replacement trough the company that gave service to the studio , but nothing to do........
and then console go away......(probably in heaven) .and was replaced by an ssl 6040E......
i think today an old harrison in good shape can be a nice summ unit with "optionals"......for give musicality
to the glass sound that come out from pro tools and other baddest digital devices,
nice idea to kill VCAs !!!
last thing i say : the only big brother fo harrison desk is a 2" studer multitrack or a 16 tracks 2" ampex
i really hope you can fully rebuild/restore this "magic" desk (overall for the sound)
cheers........
& have a nice easter to everybody
6T9R
wellcomeback .........
nice job,
in the past
i have worked with a 4032 for some year (noise apart) it is a very musical sound console
the color about sound come from transformers , .........unfortunately one day the IC (aboard the ch strips)
that control the configuration status of console , began to die .........and the boss of studio tryed to find replacement trough the company that gave service to the studio , but nothing to do........
and then console go away......(probably in heaven) .and was replaced by an ssl 6040E......
i think today an old harrison in good shape can be a nice summ unit with "optionals"......for give musicality
to the glass sound that come out from pro tools and other baddest digital devices,
nice idea to kill VCAs !!!
last thing i say : the only big brother fo harrison desk is a 2" studer multitrack or a 16 tracks 2" ampex
i really hope you can fully rebuild/restore this "magic" desk (overall for the sound)
cheers........
& have a nice easter to everybody
6T9R
nrgrecording
Well-known member
@porkyc:
Whaoo! Thanks for the information about the line driver!!! 8) I thought the CTS thing was some transistors on one chip (CA3046 or so...), like it is used in rms detector circuits or something like this. But a resistor array... that makes sense! And there are even different resistor values on the chip.. (7k5, 10k, 15k, 3k2,v20k, 12k... [measured in circuit, so not accurate]) So this line driver is the harrison version? (has resistor and a cap trimmer)
Seems like i have some channels with transformers... and others with the line driver. There are nice Jensen xformers at the input... but what was used for the output? (can't read the letters on the xformer) What would you prefer? Peter or Xformer?
Do you know any other records/artists who used this harrison desk? (besides from Michael Jackson, Abba...)
@6T9R:
aha... the IC on the FET pcb problem again? This IC is very hot after some seconds on my channel. It will give some warmth to the digital stuff... ;D
I heard of one 32series desk at a broadcasting service. It was serviced completely and after that it has gone to heaven. :'(
I will try to look for a 2" studer. The pre owner of the 4032 had one otari MTR90 for 1200€ or so. I only have a 1" 24track tascam which doesn't sound that bad compared to the otari. A friend had a sony dash.. nice heater by the way!
I just did some wiring/milled some panels... maybe my harrison will like it...
Frank.
Whaoo! Thanks for the information about the line driver!!! 8) I thought the CTS thing was some transistors on one chip (CA3046 or so...), like it is used in rms detector circuits or something like this. But a resistor array... that makes sense! And there are even different resistor values on the chip.. (7k5, 10k, 15k, 3k2,v20k, 12k... [measured in circuit, so not accurate]) So this line driver is the harrison version? (has resistor and a cap trimmer)
Seems like i have some channels with transformers... and others with the line driver. There are nice Jensen xformers at the input... but what was used for the output? (can't read the letters on the xformer) What would you prefer? Peter or Xformer?
You're very helpful! 8) I really love to hear these stories... like with Peters line driver...
Do you know any other records/artists who used this harrison desk? (besides from Michael Jackson, Abba...)
@6T9R:
aha... the IC on the FET pcb problem again?
This IC is very hot after some seconds on my channel. It will give some warmth to the digital stuff... ;DI heard of one 32series desk at a broadcasting service. It was serviced completely and after that it has gone to heaven. :'(
I will try to look for a 2" studer.
The pre owner of the 4032 had one otari MTR90 for 1200€ or so. I only have a 1" 24track tascam which doesn't sound that bad compared to the otari. A friend had a sony dash.. nice heater by the way! I just did some wiring/milled some panels... maybe my harrison will like it...
Frank.
jensenmann
Well-known member
Alter, du machst mich fertig
nrgrecording
Well-known member
Martin, your harrison rulers are shipped...
I made new ones with the I/O, communication, quad, monitor and group information. I hope you'll like it.
Someone is selling all parts of a 4032... because: "Decommissioned due to molex frustration" ???
Iam thinking about making new bus pcbs with new edge card connectors now.
800€ for the edge connectors from sullins electronics (which needs to be cut down to 3mm at both holes)
350€ if I would buy connectors from a guy on ebay... these have a different pitch. I just bought some to check it out. Maybe I can solder in only one side of the edge connectors. The mechanical fixing is made with screws anyway.
Anyone needs some connectors, too? GroupBuy? ;D
Frank.
I made new ones with the I/O, communication, quad, monitor and group information. I hope you'll like it.
Someone is selling all parts of a 4032... because: "Decommissioned due to molex frustration" ???
Iam thinking about making new bus pcbs with new edge card connectors now.
800€ for the edge connectors from sullins electronics (which needs to be cut down to 3mm at both holes)
350€ if I would buy connectors from a guy on ebay... these have a different pitch. I just bought some to check it out. Maybe I can solder in only one side of the edge connectors. The mechanical fixing is made with screws anyway.
Anyone needs some connectors, too? GroupBuy? ;D
Frank.
nrgrecording
Well-known member
Another german guy owns the abba console... the only 56 channel version I think. With 16channel sidecar:
