Hell exists

[boji]

The apocrypha has some gems. Here's my fav from Gospel of Thomas:

“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”

 

[desol]

“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”

In one of my(now) favorite testimonies from a girl that died for 23 hours, on youtube, His message clearly states, you must not stay silent about the Truth'. Other people need to hear it and decide on their own, in their own heart. It is a personal relationship with Him. He gave these people these experiences with hell, to warn the Earth. It sounds crazy, I know...

This is what brought me here to create this thread(to not stay silent), that hell is a 'real place'. It's isn't a lie, I never ever believed that 'the story' was true, but now I do...without any hesitation or any doubt. The Holy Spirit starts to 'grow' inside of you, once Jesus is 'convinced about your honesty'. I have no hesitation or doubt that Jesus is the 'Lord' and Savior of humanity. You may live on after your death through following in his footsteps, bowing down and being obedient.

Give up your desire for money. It won't save you.
Give up your arrogance for what you think you know. You will never figure it out in time.

 

[alexc]

The Gospel of Thomas just ..  covers it  ...

 

[desol]

Thanks for mentioning, Alexc.

 

[desol]

Than was actually one of my favorite books. The world has no meaning without God...Appealed to my philosophical side.

Dang dude whatever you saw  must have really scared you.  I've heard a very convincing NDE from a soldier who was blown 10 or 15 feet by an explosion. He said he definitely was out of his body  completely conscious watching his body on the ground from up in the air.
But how do you observe with no eyes? What is observing?

In the spiritual realm, many things are highly intensified, communication and movement is 'instantaneous' through thought, experiences are highly vivid, colors, feelings, etc...including pain. Accept that your answers will never be answered, until they are told to you when you pass away. They are told to you whether you go up, or down, before you face the judgment.

Another one of the videos that I liked, was a marine that had accidentally been hung by his friends, that were messing around and he passed away. He, like others, arose in a dar*ness. In the video, he explains witnessing 'Micheal' slam a demon with such incredible force, that it buckled it in half...sending it a great distance away.

"Holy, Holy, Holy
God of 'power and might'...
Heaven and Earth are filled with you glory
Forever, and ever and ever"

 

[Phrazemaster]

To respond to the initial post, after extensive reading throughout my life I have found many people report wonderful experiences "in the light," and some report horrible "hell-like" experiences as well.

My viewpoints are skewed somewhat by material by Robert Monroe and folks who have spent years doing out of body travel. But the consensus after thousands of OOBs is that we gravitate to where our beliefs lie. In other words, yes, there are "heavens" and there are "hells," but none are THE heaven or THE hell. We simply go where our beliefs match most precisely.

I loved the book Suddenly Psychic by Maureen Caudill https://www.amazon.com/Suddenly-Psychic-Skeptics-Maureen-Caudill-ebook/dp/B00E13RIAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533005155&sr=8-1&keywords=suddenly+psychic.

This scientist always believed, "when you're dead, you're dead." Then she started having powerful psychic experiences that she could not refute...even to the point of being able to bend spoons. Yes, I know lots of people have "debunked" this but could it be real? Methinks there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy"...

Mike

 

[desol]

To respond to the initial post, after extensive reading throughout my life I have found many people report wonderful experiences "in the light," and some report horrible "hell-like" experiences as well.

My viewpoints are skewed somewhat by material by Robert Monroe and folks who have spent years doing out of body travel. But the consensus after thousands of OOBs is that we gravitate to where our beliefs lie. In other words, yes, there are "heavens" and there are "hells," but none are THE heaven or THE hell. We simply go where our beliefs match most precisely.

I loved the book Suddenly Psychic by Maureen Caudill https://www.amazon.com/Suddenly-Psychic-Skeptics-Maureen-Caudill-ebook/dp/B00E13RIAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533005155&sr=8-1&keywords=suddenly+psychic.

This scientist always believed, "when you're dead, you're dead." Then she started having powerful psychic experiences that she could not refute...even to the point of being able to bend spoons. Yes, I know lots of people have "debunked" this but could it be real? Methinks there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy"...

Mike

Thanks for your post Mike. From the NDE video's I've watched on hell, there seems to be 'clear' and distinct similarities between almost all of them...and likewise, the videos involving the nicer experiences offered. Some of them are different, seemingly tailored for the person experiencing.

Of course, I don't expect be able to figure it out.

 

[Phrazemaster]

Of course, I don't expect be able to figure it out.

Yes! Exactly.

One NDE that I thought was really amazing was the one with the medical doctor Eben Alexander who had NO BRAINWAVES for a week, yet recalled what happened to him perfectly while he was "gone." So many point to the brain as hallucinating the whole experience, yet anecdotes like this one cause one to pause...

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife-ebook/dp/B008AK8FHM/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1533006624&sr=1-3&keywords=eben+alexander

Mike

 

[desol]

Yes! Exactly.

One NDE that I thought was really amazing was the one with the medical doctor Eben Alexander who had NO BRAINWAVES for a week, yet recalled what happened to him perfectly while he was "gone." So many point to the brain as hallucinating the whole experience, yet anecdotes like this one cause one to pause...

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife-ebook/dp/B008AK8FHM/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1533006624&sr=1-3&keywords=eben+alexander

Mike

I've seen his account as well as other critical professionals. His account bore the similarity, in that information was sent showing people that still needed him, in physical reality...his son I believe. From the start if I remember correctly he was moving through muck, or a black substance...which morphed into a beautiful-type experience.

 

[living sounds]

Yes! Exactly.

One NDE that I thought was really amazing was the one with the medical doctor Eben Alexander who had NO BRAINWAVES for a week, yet recalled what happened to him perfectly while he was "gone." So many point to the brain as hallucinating the whole experience, yet anecdotes like this one cause one to pause...

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife https://www.amazon.com/Proof-Heaven-Neurosurgeons-Journey-Afterlife-ebook/dp/B008AK8FHM/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1533006624&sr=1-3&keywords=eben+alexander

Mike

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/interviews/a23248/the-prophet/

 

[bluebird]

I just can't get over the fact that none of any of these non physical  experiences have been scientifically proven or witnessed by enough people to make them a fact, like the sky being blue.

My viewpoints are skewed somewhat by material by Robert Monroe and folks who have spent years doing out of body travel.

Yes I read his books as well and even tried his audio CD exercises. I never could really get anywhere except for some really cool lucid dreams. WHICH FELT VERY REAL. Within a regular dream, things would become sparkly and I would become conscious like in real life. It would only last a couple minutes.

Monroe talked about specific places on the astral plane that other people seem to corroborate. Like "The Park" where you first go when you die and meet your dead friends and family from lives current and past.
There is "evil" or bad energy on the astral plane. But it affects you only as much as you let it.
'
One of the most important things veteran astral travelers teach is to understand you are not a physical being in the astral plane and cannot really be "hurt". All pain is in the mind. It can get really ugly and hellish but you always can change your mind...

One of my favorite Astral travel teachers is Frank Kepple. He explains you can find where religious people end up in the afterlife. Creating they're own heavens and hells. Being caught in a belief system area (in the astral plane) forever.

If you take the time to read this summary of his basic description of the non physical Astral Plane you won't be disappointed. It blew my mind the first time I read it.

http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

This has more to do with the NDE's than it does with religion.

 

[desol]

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/interviews/a23248/the-prophet/

Let me ask you living sounds. What is to be gained by steering people away from making a choice? Favor in the eyes of others?

Anyone is welcome to post, but I thought that you had chosen not to participate any longer?

7:00 am and another nice day...

 

[volker]

And it doesn't take much  ...  often a life experience, sometimes the culmination of a life led 'well' or 'poorly'. When the blinders of daily existence fall away, for whatever reason, all that is left is the 'self' and the Lord.

I started down the path to Christ many years ago, after working for a long time in industries which don't do anything to advance the human condition ...  tech banking, defense, biotech, telecomms  etc.
[...]
Now I'm not scared of the eventual end we humans must all face ...  I know that there is a spiritual home awaiting my return.

I feel pity for those who choose to act in this world with evil intent ... I see 'karma' as the Judgement Seat. 

And I know I'm not alone.

I'm sorry, but no, you don't know. You possibly hope/feel/believe/imagine this to be true. But unless you took a snapchat with Jesus last thursday when you were out bowling as proof, where he told you about these things, we have to conclude you don't know. Humanity is advanced by the gain of knowledge, which religion is completely opposed to.

Really?

But it's easy to accept that we can't even figure out migraines ?  .... We're advancing medicine but it's far from definitive on so many things....

We're fighting over global warming..... And there are "smart guys" on both sides of the argument....

This is obviously far beyond our understanding at the moment.

What is so terrible about not understanding? You already fully accept not understanding a myriad of things, but with this one issue you choose to buy into something that was written thousands of years ago without a single shred of evidence? On the contrary, you believe in a book that has been proven to be obviously wrong so often, that people started to neglect one half of it, even though it's "god's word". Cherry picking and mending of the story to make it fit. That's just purely irrational. Unlike religious people, scientists are happy to admit when something is unknown, there is simply no need to fill a hole of knowledge with something made-up. And that's the great thing about evidence-based knowledge advances: opinions, or feelings, emotions, desires, wishful thinking, beliefs, they all don't matter. It's the emotional detachment that makes progress possible. Because letting go of previously held convictions that turn out to be wrong isn't associated with cost in that regard.

That's why I consider religious belief basically a weakness. You can't accept the fact that life is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, to the best of our knowledge. You can't accept that it ends once you die. So you try to take the fear away by clinging to a fairytale. That's what you do with a child that is afraid to sleep alone in the dark. You tell a story to make it feel better.

Let me ask you living sounds. What is to be gained by steering people away from making a choice? Favor in the eyes of others?

Anyone is welcome to post, but I thought that you had chosen not to participate any longer?

7:00 am and another nice day...

I can only speak for myself, but the same way religious people feel the need to tell about their beliefs to others, the same way I try to appeal to a person's rationality when I see them walking down a path of delusion. I feel sorry for everyone who wastes a single day living their life in the preparation for something that isn't going to happen. Instead of living and enjoying this life on earth to the fullest, that you were given by pure chance and luck, knowing it can be over any minute without a heavenly replay option.

 

[desol]

I can only speak for myself, but the same way religious people feel the need to tell about their beliefs to others, the same way I try to appeal to a person's rationality when I see them walking down a path of delusion. I feel sorry for everyone who wastes a single day living their life in the preparation for something that isn't going to happen. Instead of living and enjoying this life on earth to the fullest, that you were given by pure chance and luck, knowing it can be over any minute without a heavenly replay option.

The original premise, were the NDE's. There are many people's personal experiences that you need to disprove. How is it that a Christian does not live a life to it's fullest? Family, love, kindness, generosity...in fact it contains all the elements to try to 'ensure' a person lives a good, full life.

 

[volker]

The original premise, were the NDE's. There are many people's personal experiences that you need to disprove. How is it that a Christian does not live a life to it's fullest? Family, love, kindness, generosity...in fact it contains all the elements to try to 'ensure' a person lives a good, full life.

I read the book that was the base of the film that was linked earlier. That was easily the cringeworthiest piece of ... writing I've ever seen. I honestly don't feel the need to disprove such a thing. I'm half-way through the neurosurgeon's book, I can let you know after I'm finished with that. Unfortunately you still didn't post any of those videos that you personally found convincing.

In regard to the christian values. I would consider them basic human morality and ethics, but so be it. What I am opposed to is the thought that this life is only the preparation for an afterlife, because it does rob it of its inherent preciousness, that only something can possess that is a singular occurrence.

 

[desol]

I read the book that was the base of the film that was linked earlier. That was easily the cringeworthiest piece of ... writing I've ever seen. I honestly don't feel the need to disprove such a thing. I'm half-way through the neurosurgeon's book, I can let you know after I'm finished with that. Unfortunately you still didn't post any of those videos that you personally found convincing.

In regard to the christian values. I would consider them basic human morality and ethics, but so be it. What I am opposed to is the thought that this life is only the preparation for an afterlife, because it does rob it of its inherent preciousness, that only something can possess that is a singular occurrence.

If people wish, youtube is not hard to find. As you do not feel the need to disprove, I also did not feel the need to prove, because I had already made my decision. I think life is a wonderful, beautiful, amazing gift...but I also believe that it is more than that. I've always had the feeling that my choices have an impact at the result of my life, or that there is 'meaning' behind life.

This caused me to search, which I'm presuming, may be why you're reading that book.

 

[volker]

If people wish, youtube is not hard to find. As you do not feel the need to disprove, I also did not feel the need to prove, because I had already made my decision. I think life is a wonderful, beautiful, amazing gift...but I also believe that it is more than that. I've always had the feeling that my choices have an impact at the result of my life, or that there is 'meaning' behind life.

This caused me to search, which I'm presuming, may be why you're reading that book.

I'm not gonna wade through endless hours of videos just for the sake of it. I'm only interested in the topic in relation to being able to discuss it with you or anyone else on this thread. To see what could possibly change your mind about something so fundamentally. I'm not asking for proof (believers can't be disproven; belief by the very definition is accepting something without proof), I'm simply curious to see what could possibly leave such an impact. And the same goes for reading the book.

When the meaning to life isn't god-given, it has to come from within yourself. Everyone is free to choose for himself whatever that is or isn't, without following a commanded ideal or path to walk on.

 

[desol]

I'm not gonna wade through endless hours of videos just for the sake of it. I'm only interested in the topic in relation to being able to discuss it with you or anyone else on this thread. To see what could possibly change your mind about something so fundamentally. I'm not asking for proof (believers can't be disproven; belief by the very definition is accepting something without proof), I'm simply curious to see what could possibly leave such an impact. And the same goes for reading the book.

When the meaning to life isn't god-given, it has to come from within yourself. Everyone is free to choose for himself whatever that is or isn't, without following a commanded ideal or path to walk on.

The NDE's are very clearly by account, God sent, and very clearly sent, by account, as a warning.

Proverbs 9:10-12

 

[living sounds]

Let me ask you living sounds. What is to be gained by steering people away from making a choice? Favor in the eyes of others?

Anyone is welcome to post, but I thought that you had chosen not to participate any longer?

7:00 am and another nice day...

I just pointed to some context, factual information. GDIY has always been a place for sharing and gaining knowledge, hasn't it?

 

[desol]

I just pointed to some context, factual information. GDIY has always been a place for sharing and gaining knowledge, hasn't it?

Hey living sounds. Yes, it's always been a place for sharing knowledge.