Hell exists

[desol]

Then there are all of the cases where trauma wasn't involved where people experience things. 

Those can be pretty interesting and intense I'm sure....

There are many on youtube, and I am grateful for everything they have shared.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Ruairi. I'm not here to argue scripture.

There are enough people arguing already.

I'm not here to argue at all!  I'm here to learn about electronics with friends.

I am only here to point out these NDE experiences, that I have found to be interesting, heartfelt and for that matter truthful. People that have lost limbs, survived suicide attempts and other tragic events. A number of them highly trained to critically think; people with much greater training than myself and poor people as well. People from all walks in life.

Please link to some of what you consider to be the most convincing, I am genuinely curious.  If I find them unconvincing I commit to being courteous.

As I said earlier, I have no doubt that these people believe what they are saying.  They have experienced physical, mental and electrical trauma and their human, fallible pattern matching brain is trying to comprehend it.  They may be suffering from PTSD. 

I don't understand why the fact that they have lost a limb or that they are/were critical thinkers has any bearing.  Trauma and circumstance can humble any human and overcome our ability to cope, process and understand.  Educated humans will bludgeon others to death, commit people to gas chambers and eat the flesh of others in extreme circumstances. 

For men to argue the business of Gods, seems a bit foolhardy to begin with, to me.

This kind of statement is why I need to disengage.  What does this even mean?  Your god exists in your mind, and his business such as it is exists in your mind, woven from your life experience, human need and the stories and constructions of other men.  I don't mean that in a dismissive way, you are free to believe anything that gives you comfort and saves you from a place that you believe will torment you.

But apparently my approach is foolhardy?  I should sign on to the church as an insurance policy, a just in case?  And I should also buy that elephant repellent that guy was trying to sell me the other day?  "Mrs Jones has never had an elephant on her lawn in all the years she's been using this"….

 

[living sounds]

I am only here to point out these NDE experiences, that I have found to be interesting, heartfelt and for that matter truthful.

We are wired to believe what comes over as interesting and appears to be heartfelt and truthful. That's why advertising frequently uses testimonials. Dr. Atkins died of complications associated with the diet he propagated. It is very likely he actually believed it was healthy.  Believe can be a dangerous thing...

 

[desol]

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate that you're concerned with my understanding.

 

[59flame]

I agree. Improvement is a good thing.  I also believe We should always try to improve our understanding and accept there may be room for improvement in our processes .

There is improvement in science and it constanly evolves further but like with understanding  prayer concerning healings could there be things that cause it to work or not. another words are there things we could learn. I heard a testimony of a woman with stomach cancer she was on her deathbed 86 pounds all the world had to offer had not worked. She heard the bible story of the woman who saw jesus walking through the crowd with the uncurable blood disease. This woman  said if i could touch his(jesus) garmet i would be made whole.  As Jesus  came by she touched his cloak  and virtue left his body and he then turned and said who touched me after the healing had been passed from him to her .  She said it was me lord and he said your faith has made you whole.  She was healed b4 jesus knew who touched him. Her faith made her whole not jesus's willingness to heal. Now back to the original story this women with cancer said i knew the bible said if i have the faith of a mustard seed i can move mountains or be healed but I also knew  it must be pure  faith with absolute  no doubt. She said i knew if i told my family or friends or even church family that they would all want the best for me and be sad because i was sick but would most assuredly even in their best notions honestly doubt  i would overcome.  They are just going to go by what they have already seen happen so many times b4 with others in this situation. So She told noone but a few people she knew really believed God would heal her and that would not bring doubt into her situation.  She was totally healed and said never let anyone in who you know will bring doubt.  Could this be an evolving of the understanding of the working of prayer? I mean medicine evolves because we study it constantly but what if we studied these kinda things about prayer by allowing God to answer the qeustions we have and maturing to a point where we can recieve the answers spiritually as this lady did? An interesting story for sure.

 

[DaveP]

religion just doesn't make sense to me. What about the thousands of years of humans before a "savior" came?

This has an answer.

I will have to give a bit of Christian Theology here, forgive me if you knew this already.  God created the world.  There was a war in heaven and Satan was thrown out down to earth, whereby he tried to turn mankind against God the father.  I guess its easier to believe that aliens are living among us, but that's how it goes.  Man is made steward of the earth, accountable to God for how he does the job.  We are judged according to our "enlightenment".  Those that lived before Christ are judged on their conscience, those that heard the gospel (about Jesus) are judged to a higher criteria accordingly.  Catholic priests who abused children in their care are basically toast.

This life is a kind of testing ground (don't ask me why, I didn't make the rules)  People who make the most of what they are given are rewarded, so Steven Hawking  is going to be right up there for overcoming his disability.  Paris Hilton might not do so well.

God knows it is tough down here so He sent his Son to make a bridge for those who accept Him.  If you believe that Christ died for you, then you get a free pass, if you reject Him then you are on your own, good luck with that.  Having said that, you have to show some remorse for your failings, there is more than a cynical count me in involved.  It is true that there are many better people in ordinary life than there are in Church,  You and I know that and so does God.

I am well aware that most people think that all this is crazy, during WW1 you would have been hard pushed to find anyone who did not know this stuff like the back of their hand, today the situation is reversed.

DaveP

 

[59flame]

Yes of course. I feel Our understanding of all things is subject to improvement and I was hoping to make that connection that man is allowed to make errors and improve in whatever process .
I think understanding grace is a tough one , nobody can be perfect, and if it were better understood, things would make more sense for many but the continuing judgments (yes, every context) of man seem to slow things to a crawl in the area of  some discoveries and advancements.

I'm hopeful. Mustard seeds are pretty small....

Yes they are that is why it is so important i believe to understand that that faith even a small amount must be pure with no doubt. That can be tough sometimes but i think is the reason to not let people in on your prayerful situations who will add to the side of doubt.

 

[59flame]

Scott 2000 that is awesome

 

[desol]

This has an answer.

I will have to give a bit of Christian Theology here, forgive me if you knew this already.  God created the world.  There was a war in heaven and Satan was thrown out down to earth, whereby he tried to turn mankind against God the father.  I guess its easier to believe that aliens are living among us, but that's how it goes.  Man is made steward of the earth, accountable to God for how he does the job.  We are judged according to our "enlightenment".  Those that lived before Christ are judged on their conscience, those that heard the gospel (about Jesus) are judged to a higher criteria accordingly.  Catholic priests who abused children in their care are basically toast.

This life is a kind of testing ground (don't ask me why, I didn't make the rules)  People who make the most of what they are given are rewarded, so Steven Hawking  is going to be right up there for overcoming his disability.  Paris Hilton might not do so well.

God knows it is tough down here so He sent his Son to make a bridge for those who accept Him.  If you believe that Christ died for you, then you get a free pass, if you reject Him then you are on your own, good luck with that.  Having said that, you have to show some remorse for your failings, there is more than a cynical count me in involved.  It is true that there are many better people in ordinary life than there are in Church,  You and I know that and so does God.

I am well aware that most people think that all this is crazy, during WW1 you would have been hard pushed to find anyone who did not know this stuff like the back of their hand, today the situation is reversed.

DaveP

Still, no one truly knows what someone such as Stephen Hawking decided, in the end. Jesus is firm on the 'all' of his rules, because of man's chosen disobedience and behavior. You must give to people that have less than you, and not be concerned with yourself(only with your own basic needs)...as you trust your belief that this life is only temporary; a testing grounds and experience as such, and you believe his word when he says there is more after. Even what is after, you shouldn't be concerned with, at least, I'm not.

As such, as a new Christian, I know little.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Gentlemen,

In the interest of staying friends I'm not going to post on this topic anymore.  It would not be kind to describe just how insane I think some of what you are all saying is.

Good luck with everything.

Cheers,
Ruairi

 

[living sounds]

I second what Ruairi wrote and am out of this topic, too.

 

[59flame]

Gentlemen,

In the interest of staying friends I'm not going to post on this topic anymore.  It would not be kind to describe just how insane I think some of what you are all saying is.

Good luck with everything.

Cheers,
Ruairi

You just told us . But we can still be friends because I realize it's just your opinion

 

[Tubetec]

Its all starting to sound a bit airey fairey to me too ,  ;D

I dont think I have much more to contribute to this topic either

 

[boji]

It would not be kind to describe just how insane I think some of what you are all saying is.

lulz  Calm down Ta..I mean Ruairio.  ;D

We are hardwired for this stuff, problem it mostly revolves around the right hemisphere (threat mitigation / chaos), which does not have linguistic tools to deploy.

This is why it is so difficult to talk about because language is a rational, left hemisphere thing.

 

[59flame]

lulz  Calm down Ta..I mean Ruairio.  ;D

We are hardwired for this stuff, problem it mostly revolves around the right hemisphere (threat mitigation / chaos), which does not have linguistic tools to deploy.

This is why it is so difficult to talk about because language is a rational, left hemisphere thing.
[/quote 
This is what we who know Gods word believe
1st Corinthians 2 :14 But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God:  for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[DaveP]

It would not be kind to describe just how insane I think some of what you are all saying is.

This used to be very much a minority opinion, but Christianity is now becoming the minority opinion, that is why I described Desol as brave.  Becoming a Christian in today's world is like a homosexual coming out in yesterday's world................. how times have changed in my lifetime.

Nevertheless, enjoying DIY electronics together keeps us sane and good friends in this life.

DaveP

 

[boji]

enjoying DIY electronics together keeps us sane

Not so sure about that.  If I could go back and tell my former self anything about this blessed console, it might be to go work harder outside in the world and then buy something of quality. 

I do have a MUCH deeper appreciation for what goes into the making of things. Even toasters.

 

[desol]

This used to be very much a minority opinion, but Christianity is now becoming the minority opinion, that is why I described Desol as brave.  Becoming a Christian in today's world is like a homosexual coming out in yesterday's world................. how times have changed in my lifetime.

Nevertheless, enjoying DIY electronics together keeps us sane and good friends in this life.

DaveP

I think it's important as Christians, not to condemn. Even though the act is condemned in more than a few of the testimonies that I believe, and I believe it to be true, there is only one judge and only He can and will condemn. "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

I think we should only tell the truth, and let people decide.

 

[boji]

I think we should only tell the truth, and let people decide.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56824/tell-all-the-truth-but-tell-it-slant-1263

 

[desol]

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/56824/tell-all-the-truth-but-tell-it-slant-1263

I generally don't prefer to talk in riddles, but I'll try here:

"Dickinson's attitude toward spiritual matters was more complex than her poem "Some keep the Sabbath going to church / I keep it staying at home" (Fr236) implies. While her poems are saturated with the language, ritual, and expectation of traditional religious experience, her tone varies tremendously. Some poems affirm the need for faith: "Faith - is the Pierless Bridge / Supporting what We see / Unto the Scene that We do not - " (Fr978). Irreverence underlies other aspects of her work: "The Bible is an antique Volume - / Written by faded Men / At the suggestion of Holy Spectres -" (Fr1577)."

- So because you are lukewarm — neither hot nor cold — I am about to spit you out of My mouth! 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.… - Revelation 3:16