Luke Audio CK12 capsules?

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resilient

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Hi everyone,

I have two donor microphones and two parts kits, PCBs, and Cinemag transformers on their way from Studio939.  What I don't have is capsules.

One of my donor mics (Avantone CV12) already has what I believe is a RK-12 in it.  It actually sounds really good as-is.  Ultimately I'd like to get one of the "accurate" capsules (Campbell, Beesneez, Heiserman), but cannot swing those right now.  I was thinking of just getting another RK12 for the time being, but then Luke Audio caught my eye. 

How do they stack up to the others?  I'm basically planning on these mics being lifetime mics, thus I'm wanting to go with the big 3 replicas.  Luke Audio, however, seems to have a good reputation and are more affordable.  Are they a great upgrade over the RK12, or would I be better off waiting out for one of the others do you think?

Thanks,

Brandon
 

kingkorg

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It is the exact same capsule as RK12, so don't bother. Rk12 is otherwise a great capsule, the only real improvement would be something like a real CK12.
 

resilient

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kingkorg said:
It is the exact same capsule as RK12, so don't bother. Rk12 is otherwise a great capsule, the only real improvement would be something like a real CK12.

I don't think it's the exact same... they're doing 1 micron platinum sputtered.  Are you thinking of the Dachman Audio RK12?

Brandon
 

kingkorg

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They can claim anything they like, 1 micron mylar is way too unstable for a capsule.

Even if it were true, that would affect transient response at some inaudible frequencies.

The original CK12 is not 1 micron, and Luke's backplate is of RK12 construction so it simply can't offer CK12 performance. We've been over this 1000 times on this forum only.

Dachman's rk12 is Guosheng's capsule (3U audio). The same exact backplate issue.

There is no alternative to CK12 capsule. Sorry.
 

resilient

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Gotcha.  Thank you for the reply.  I did search the forum and was unable to find anything specific to my question, so I posted it.  That is very helpful to understand the differences.  Thanks!

Brandon
 

kingkorg

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Sorry if i was a bit harsh in answers. Every time there's a "new" capsule on the market these questions pop up. Which is expected.

I would really spare some money for a real CK12.

I made few mics with swappable capsules and electronics. The carefully measured results were that CK12 sounds and measures as CK12 even with Behringer's electronics (B2).

If i remember correctly Tim tests his CK12 capsule in a Røde ss mic!

Whitney Houston had an original CK12 capsule in a solid state mic, so that she could use it while she was traveling. Elam circuit yet solid state.

RK12 sounds as RK12 in C12, U47, C800, and Behringer circuits.

It is really mostly about the construction of the capsule. CK12 has unique back and off axis response, phase response as well. You might think there is not a great deal of that if you perform directly in front of a mic, but i assure you that is exactly what makes this capsule shine.

I killed myself trying to emulate this with other capsules, and never made it. Surprisingly this kind of phase and off axis coherence i found only in F8 ribbon mics. Yet they are F8, so not really the same thing.
 

kingkorg

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Not much to it, this is how it started. I used B2 bodies because of detachable head. Over the time the setup evolved, now i have about 10 of these with different capsules/electronics. I have also different headbasket designs, so i could experiment with those.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=67884.0
 

kingkorg

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A lot of times i use Tim's CK12 capsule with B2 electronics just because i don't want to deal with psu/tubes/impedances, it's just quicker. And it sounds just as good. Tim's capsule all the way to the right.


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ubxf

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Thank you , that's great. I'm exploring similar ideas but because i already had Neumann and blue caps, i went with bayonet mount capsules which proves a little more challenging on the mechanical side of things.
 

Recording Engineer

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kingkorg said:
It is the exact same capsule as RK12, so don't bother. Rk12 is otherwise a great capsule, the only real improvement would be something like a real CK12.

Do you have evidence? At the very least, can we at least assume you own both the RK12 and the LA-1E?
 

Recording Engineer

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Mics I have with Luke Audio capsules:

(2) M49b-inspired with Flea F49 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-micron Mylar and gold deposited.

(2) Stephen Paul C12 mod-inspired with Tim Campbell CT12 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-Micron Mylar and platinum deposited.

(1) U47-inspired with Neumann K49 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-micron Mylar and platinum deposited.

(1) M269-inspired with LA-6 capsule

(1) Stephen Paul U67 mod-inspired with LA-6


Love them all as much as my mics that have Dany D7s, Tim Campbell CT12s, Sony C38B capsules, Beesneez K7s, And Samar Audio capsules.
 

kingkorg

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I don't have an evidence nor do i need one. Neither do i have 250$ to crash on something that is clearly obvious. My customer for whom i installed several of Luke's capsules sadly did so i fortunately don't have to.


However as i did say 50$ Rayking RK12 sounds great, so i don't see a reason why Luke's wouldnt. Yet i'll never be a CK12 just like your CT12 isn't since you "upgraded" it with 1 micron mylar iirc.
 

resilient

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Recording Engineer said:
Mics I have with Luke Audio capsules:

(2) M49b-inspired with Flea F49 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-micron Mylar and gold deposited.

(2) Stephen Paul C12 mod-inspired with Tim Campbell CT12 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-Micron Mylar and platinum deposited.

(1) U47-inspired with Neumann K49 backplates modded by Allen Luke and with 1-micron Mylar and platinum deposited.

(1) M269-inspired with LA-6 capsule

(1) Stephen Paul U67 mod-inspired with LA-6


Love them all as much as my mics that have Dany D7s, Tim Campbell CT12s, Sony C38B capsules, Beesneez K7s, And Samar Audio capsules.

How do you like the 1 micron capsules?

Brandon
 

rmburrow

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resilient said:
How do you like the 1 micron capsules?

Brandon

Not sure about 1 micron gold deposited mylar.  Hard to get that stuff.  Will it hold tension or collapse?  1 micron nickel in a Capps 2250 sounds great.  The old Capps is my "test bed" for capsule material.  Dr. Schoeps had it right with the original M934 capsules with sub-micron nickel....
 

kingkorg

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The devil is in the details. 1micron nickel capsules are made out of nickel, not nickel plated film!

1 micron mylar simply won't hold tension over time even if you manage to work with it. After plating you need to stabilize the film which is tricky process, you can't just stretch the thing and leave it at that. Have in mind that just layer of metal plated to the diaphragm is about 0.5 microns thick. So try imagining how fragile 1 micron mylar would be!

There was a paper from Shure on how they managed to get around this by embossing diaphragms, and this is for 2.5 micron. And this is Shure we are talking about. They are still one of the best, and improve on their products all the time. KSM series capsules are state of the art. They are available, cheap for what they offer.

Here is a part of it, i'll post the whole research if i find it.

https://service.shure.com/s/article/what-is-an-embossed-diaphragm?language=en_US
 

Recording Engineer

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kingkorg said:
Yet i'll never be a CK12 just like your CT12 isn't since you "upgraded" it with 1 micron mylar iirc.

That’s ok, because my modded CT12s are no longer CT12s, nor are they upgraded CT12s, nor were they ever trying to be anything other than their own thing. They are. It’s ok. I have 3 stock CT12s in mics that are just as awesome but surely different.
 

Recording Engineer

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resilient said:
How do you like the 1 micron capsules?

Brandon

Love em just as much as any other capsule. No harsh high-end transients as people have traditionally claimed about 1-micron of past. Durability can always be argued. Some people can outright claim they simply don’t like them, but that’s opinion and usually based on replacements of stock capsules in mostly stock Neumann or AKG mics. That’s ok and to be expected if you’re expecting and prefer the stock sound.
 

gyraf

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If i remember correctly Tim tests his CK12 capsule in a Røde ss mic!

naa, but he recommends his capsule as a huge upgrade for some of these. We have several Røde here inhouse modded like this - and the capsule sure does all the difference.


/Jakob E.
 

C12VR

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Dachman sells a 3u k87, but I'm fairly certain that the others come from a different manufacturer.
 
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