There used to be some SPIRIT on this forum.......

[hitchhiker]

Maybe a separate one-shot group buy area would work here? Single payment of X euros and you get to post one thread in the forum that won't ever get deleted - to be used only for that single group buy.

I like kingston's idea here, but maybe let the new area police itself and tell the winers there is just no avenue for complaints. We all know who the true DIY spirited members are like Peter and we can ignore the wrongly posted high profit ventures which will keep this new  "group buy area" relatively non profit.

 

[Davo]

I've got the green pre, night eq and s800 in my racks.... all great projects, thanks Peter.

In all reality, I could see somebody complaining if this was a business venture where you were actually making cash off of these projects.... give me a break, $15 for a board..... that's doin charity work

 

[Ptownkid]

I tried to sell 2 prototype front panels that I had made FOR MYSELF in the B market once...someone whined that it was free advertisement for my white market thread...and made Ethan remove it. I understand EXACTLY how you feel.

Also, you have made some obviously large contributions around here, and if I read right you are thinking of not only leaving, but removing content as well. Please, please, do not remove any content...when you do that you are punishing everyone and rendering all the hard work and content associated with that content useless.

Cheers

 

[gemini86]

I tried to sell 2 prototype front panels that I had made FOR MYSELF in the B market once...someone whined that it was free advertisement for my white market thread...and made Ethan remove it. I understand EXACTLY how you feel.

Also, you have made some obviously large contributions around here, and if I read right you are thinking of not only leaving, but removing content as well. Please, please, do not remove any content...when you do that you are punishing everyone and rendering all the hard work and content associated with that content useless.

Cheers

And some people constantly advertise their upcoming overpriced pcbs in the LAB of all places. The white market needs to be revamped. Both for the people paying for space to get exposure and for the people who don't like that the lab is being spammed. There needs to be a new product alert thread that's only for posts about upcoming white market offerings. 

 

[bruno2000]

...someone whined that it was free advertisement for my white market thread...and made Ethan remove it.

How does one "make" Ethan remove it, hold a gun to his head?
With ALL due respect, maybe Ethan should grow a pair, and tell the whiners to f**k off.  I really don't see folks abusing the Black Market.
I understand that the White Market is a source of revenue, but one person more or less selling in the White Market is not going to kill this forum.  However, this thread is proof that the whiners might.
Sorry for being harsh, but this pi**es me off.
Best,
Bruno2000

 

[emrr]

Doesn't seem like participation in the WM should ban one from the BM.

 

[Ptownkid]

Doesn't seem like participation in the WM should ban one from the BM.

indeed...

 

[grantlack]

peter, i'm sure whatever decision you arrive at (or have already arrived at) will be the right one for you- but know that if you leave your contributions will be sorely missed.  some of your projects are at the heart of my long-term gear plan, and i appreciate your efforts in making them available to us all.

We dont need group therapy, we need a group buy!

it seems we may need a measure of both  :'(.

 

[okgb]

Quote from: emrr on Today at 03:55:01 pm
Doesn't seem like participation in the WM should ban one from the BM.

indeed...

I don't think it does , may have to qualify it , but in ptown's case he's already paying for
a white market thread , which is part of what keeps the grp going
[ he's not avoiding paying with the black market ]

the black market , was almost a courtesy , try to market items and sell them on gear slut
or contemplate buying into a grp buy  not intending to sell it again , F'n grow up and go to kijiji

repeating that I've been personally burned for 200.00  a couple of times I think some move towards
feedback as ethan has done is a progressive step , thanks

 

[kepeb]

what is Ethans opinion on this?
Ultimately he is the one to decide what is acceptable on this forum, and who were the complainers? the news was delivered anonymously to remove blame/responsibility? maybe some consideration before passing on irrelevant comments which come off as warnings when delivered by a moderator.
I'm not surprised offence has been taken.

I think stuff like this needs to be aired. if 2 members with one post have grumbles then i would vote tough shit and ignore them. as would many others.

if otoh its complaints from respected members then surely this is a point which needs to be brought up publicly too. to better the forum! not just run off to tattle tail. i had assumed we were mostly grown ups.

Peterc, I agree with some of the others, please dont take it to heart. this is a shame, its petty and cowardly. that is way more of a problem than any of your work here.

 

[peter purpose]

Name and shame the moaners.... that way I can avoid buying their wares.

 

[okgb]

never mind " politically correct "  Pete's right call the kettle black
a coward hides behind an email ?    .............nice work btw causing  ethan more work
what have YOU contributed ?

I also imagine these  "complainers  "  are low post count , newer members
[ maybe part of the reason they should pay , to be here , ]

 

[0dbfs]

If the "complaints" cannot withstand or hold up to "communal" scrutiny then they are simply invalid in the eyes of the "community".

ie; This is one place to bring it up and discuss. Resolve it within the community.

If we separate ourselves from the emotional aspects and look into the known facts from all sides there is very likely significant depth to both/all sides of the discussion/issue. Most certainly more than two sides/issues here.

For example: If a vendor/seller has religiously paid up their WM dues and see's another "seller" that they perceive as consistently stepping over the BM line and providing products that are somehow almost-commercial yet not quite all the way there.... It is DIY right?

I think it's obvious that there are exceptions to any rule.

Also, what if Vendor A hangs their shingle in the WM and provides a "commercial" service/product... Things go "well" and they run their business making some money... In the WM... All good so far. Now Individual X comes along and comes up with some very cool and desire-able proto boards (competition)... Developed as a non-commercial endeavour... Does a run or two... And for whatever reason ends up taking business away from Vendor A...

Does Vendor A have a right in this extremely-significant sub-culture to complain? (I mean they are required to pay their "forum-tax" in order to offer commercial services... Which they do v.willingly)
Does Individual X even know that they have stirred anything up?
Does Ethan (aka: the-man) have conflicting allegiances WRT this situ? Protect and preserve the altruistic-and-open nature of the forum or protect those that pay the bills and allow the community to develop and grow?

There is a thriving and complex micro-economy here and the-man is required to tax and collect. Protect and serve... Make judgements and provide discipline....

Thoughts / comments ?

Cheers,
jonathan

 

[Ethan]

I try to respect everyone's unique perspective while holding everyone to the same rules.
Yes, WM members are a big part of supporting GroupDIY, but they still have to follow the rules just like everyone else.

I understand that sometimes enforcing rules will be unpopular. WRT PeterC, there may have been some initial misunderstanding, but I've made it clear to him how I feel.  I value him as a member just like everyone else.

It is never my intention to force anyone into the WM, but I do ask that anyone who is selling products or services, IF the scope of the sales has outgrown a single groupbuy (which it often innocently can) and if they would like to continue selling them to please list it in the White Market.

In any event, the Free Market is now the place for groupbuys and giveaways. The Black Market is for Buying/Selling, and the Whte Market is for those that would like to advertise their products or services.

 

[Ptownkid]

Where is the Black Market now?

 

[12volts]

......>
With ALL due respect, maybe Ethan should grow a pair, and tell the whiners to f**k off. 

+1

Name and shame the moaners.... that way I can avoid buying their wares.

+1


Frank B.

 

[mitsos]

this is stupid.

I don't understand why the black market was removed/renamed, when the white market caused all the problems. (I know the WM pays the bills, but it didn't used to be that way). This is one situation when I would agree with John Roberts' point of view on market systems (I don't tend to follow the view of free market economics in the real world, but in the case of this forum it's a perfect example of government (Ethan) spending too much time and effort trying to control things for the sake of business).  Restricting free sales to accomodate the profit making section.  :

The old Black market used to be great.  The old group buys were amazing deals and it's great to now have parts available in small quantities all the time, but let's not forget how this place started. Please.

and wtf is up with the auction stuff? Isn't ebay bad enough?

Just leave one market, the OLD black market, and let the white/grey die a quick death. Find a way to charge a dollar per sale, or leave it up to member honesty, whatever.  Or, charge everyone for being a member and hopefully get rid of the freeloaders that don't feel it's worth it to pay $5 a year.

btw, my pultec thread ended up in the WM because of the same type of complaining. I just didn't feel like dealing with it, so I moved it.  I respect PEter C for publicly speaking out, I wish I had.  This place has changed a lot in the past few years, and not for the better.

We used to be a family here, what happened?

 

[jackies]

I'm with mitsos on this - I'd much rather pay $5 or more for membership and have old plain black market.
Not feeling the auction thing at all...
:-\

 

[okgb]

Perhaps some of this comes from the lobbying of other companies who
would be happy to see the sales die here ,  hate to see the place fall apart
maybe whinners need 100 post count before complaining  , if ethan wasn't here
what would they do  ..............., try a post so it can be debated ?
Maybe time to throw some water on this let it cool down ,
I'd be in allot of trouble  if i lost some of the build notes here

And back to that argument , if you're too cheap or don't think this place is worth 5.00
then maybe you don't really want to be here .............. [ and then what are you contributing ? ]

as this thread gets longer I'm starting to see the merit of just leaving things as they are
it's not really broken ? 
Have more long time members slowly disappeared ? and we'll be left with what  , the complainers ?

 

[mitsos]

I'd be in allot of trouble  if i lost some of the build notes here

Have more long time members slowly disappeared ? and we'll be left with what  , the complainers ?

quoting so people don't miss those two important points.