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I've stated my position on the Brewery in the recent past when others wanted to shut it down altogether or ban certain topics. I'd prefer that adults here be allowed to discuss politics, climate, "the science" and other topics in The Brewery. As for rules and absolutism, I lean more towards fewer rules, but this isn't "the digital public square" like Twitter and Facebook are, so here we are with compromises.
 
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That is not at all the viewpoint of actual libertarians.
I haven't seen actual libertarians in practice, much like you don't see fiscally responsible Republicans, nor Democrats willing to set aside corporate entanglements.

However for Musk-like techbro libertarians my description is spot on.
 
So........Twitter........ Yeah..........

The best excuse I've heard so far is that Musk is at his best when everything's going crazy and on the verge of collapse, so he purposely pushed Twitter to the brink of disaster. That way he could work his magic. (And that came from someone who has worked closely with Musk and is an investor in Tesla.)

Well, I'll give Musk credit for doing a masterful job of wrecking a company. I'm far less convinced he'll build a better Twitter atop the ashes.
 
What evidence is there that Twitter is "wrecked?" It's changing. If you've ever been through a merger or acquisition in a tech company you'd see some similarity. In this case there are more emotional responses than normal, but turmoil after a big change isn't unusual. Why don't these folks just build a new Twitter instead of crying? Or maybe they can #LearnToWeld.
 
I've been through three M&As in two different tech companies. In all of them there were ruthless firings and rushed, poorly implemented decision making by management. None of them were anything like what's happened here - a single decision maker utterly out of his depth.

We'll see whether it does or it doesn't improve as time passes. For me, it doesn't really matter one way or the other - my own opinion is that the world would be better off without Twitter, but if it went it'd be replaced with something equally poisonous. What I find hilarious is people pretending it's all going great.

By the way, here's Elon choosing against free speech absolutism because it hurts his feelings. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I'm wrong about what free speech means and how absolutism is different when Elon is doing it!

https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/21/elon-musk-says-alex-jones-wont-be-allowed-back-on-twitter-17799155/
 
I am uncomfortable criticizing someone that successful. A little success can be luck, that much success is not.

Buying twitter was not a very wise impulse but I wouldn't bet against him.

JR
 
I've been through three M&As in two different tech companies. In all of them there were ruthless firings and rushed, poorly implemented decision making by management.
I've been through several, too. My point was that there's nothing unusual about it except for the immature employee base. I was never cut during any RIF, but I lived through more than I can count (a dozen at least), the first when I was about 27 and had just hired on at Xerox. Another when I was about 35 was a 30% RIF that happened six weeks after I started at the company. Other places would try to reduce costs by using mandatory pay cuts for a year (10-15%) and/or forced time off (every employee must take two weeks off during each quarter using PTO or as unpaid leave). You know what? I didn't hear anyone crying and whining and posting on the internet about how unfair it all was. Welcome to "at-will" employment. Life isn't always fair or easy. Get used to it.

None of them were anything like what's happened here - a single decision maker utterly out of his depth.
It isn't clear that Musk is not using any advisors. How would you know? He has some kind of plan, he hasn't shared it all publicly and because of that you can't accurately judge whether these short-term outcomes are good or bad.

We'll see whether it does or it doesn't improve as time passes. For me, it doesn't really matter one way or the other - my own opinion is that the world would be better off without Twitter, but if it went it'd be replaced with something equally poisonous. What I find hilarious is people pretending it's all going great.
I think it's hilarious that people think they understand it all and can make judgements about how he's "wrecking Twitter" or whatever. He's created and run more businesses than all of the screeching internet ignorati commentators.

By the way, here's Elon choosing against free speech absolutism because it hurts his feelings. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I'm wrong about what free speech means and how absolutism is different when Elon is doing it!

https://metro.co.uk/2022/11/21/elon-musk-says-alex-jones-wont-be-allowed-back-on-twitter-17799155/
I won't defend the decision. I will say Musk is unlikely to ban actual news organizations, physicians, and others who report on events in a way that escapes the propaganda narratives that are so common of late. That itself will give Twitter some value in the world compared to its prior toxic incarnation.
 
I am uncomfortable criticizing someone that successful.
Is this something to be proud of? People who are "successful" (basically, I think what we're talking about here is folks who make a LOT of money) should not be above criticism--it might be that they should be criticized more due to the outsized influence their decisions often have. It's pretty obvious that Musk has made missteps--the fact that he's had to backtrack already on some of his less rational decisions would indicate that maybe even he recognizes this--though I'm sure he'd be loath to admit it. The choices he's making have the potential to reverberate throughout the world, in ways it might be hard to predict. Musk may or may not fail with Twitter, but it's also worth wondering what "success" might look like for him, and what effects that "success" might have on the world at large.
 
Is this something to be proud of? People who are "successful" (basically, I think what we're talking about here is folks who make a LOT of money) should not be above criticism--it might be that they should be criticized more due to the outsized influence their decisions often have.
I agree that everyone is subject to criticism.

It's pretty obvious that Musk has made missteps--the fact that he's had to backtrack already on some of his less rational decisions would indicate that maybe even he recognizes this--though I'm sure he'd be loath to admit it.
Huh? By changing tack after making a bad (or less than optimal) decision he is admitting it. He's successful, in part, because he's actively learning by evaluating the outcomes of his decisions. Now contrast that with the prior Czars of Censorship at Twitter who did the opposite. They doubled down on their terrible decisions and tried to weasel out with ex post facto rationalization when they got backed into a corner.

The choices he's making have the potential to reverberate throughout the world, in ways it might be hard to predict. Musk may or may not fail with Twitter, but it's also worth wondering what "success" might look like for him, and what effects that "success" might have on the world at large.
Did you wonder the same things when unabashedly anti-free speech "leaders" ran Twitter? What about FB? Google?
 
Ok he finally purchased Twitter.
Watching the reaction from both sides is a good laugh. At the end of the day my life will have zero change because of it.
Like any platform there is a choice to use it or not. You do you.
 
Did you wonder the same things when unabashedly anti-free speech "leaders" ran Twitter? What about FB? Google?
I've said it before, but what about GDIY? Why are you even here if "free speech" (as defined by US right-wing extremists) is so important to you?
 
Is this something to be proud of?
I am not embarrassed to credit Musk for his numerous accomplishments. I won't presume to read your mind but are you suggesting I should be embarrassed? I see you are comfortable criticizing me.
People who are "successful" (basically, I think what we're talking about here is folks who make a LOT of money) should not be above criticism-
WTF do you mean "we"? As a design engineer I appreciate the multiple engineering feats he has pulled off in sometimes wildly different disciplines. I was an engineering manager before and it is not easy to manage a creative design team productively. I won't bore you with a list of Musk's sundry successes.

That said I have known a handful of wealthy people and some tend to think that they are smarter than everybody with less wealth than they have. Some spend their excessive wealth to change the world, not always for the better, because they think they know better. Since you claim you can read my mind you can probably guess who I am thinking about. ;)
-it might be that they should be criticized more due to the outsized influence their decisions often have.
That sounds like a reason to criticize media, movies stars, influencers, who have outsized influence while lacking basis. Then there are politicians. :rolleyes:
It's pretty obvious that Musk has made missteps--the fact that he's had to backtrack already on some of his less rational decisions would indicate that maybe even he recognizes this-
There is an old axiom, "If you're not making mistakes then you're not doing anything (John Wooden, famous basketball coach). Buying Twitter for $44B was an obvious mistake. Musk not only acknowledges that but tried to back out of the deal. He was contractually obligated so followed through. I can't imagine him staying engaged at the day to day sturm und drang of twitter very long. He pulled some of his smart employees from other Musk companies in to help him clean up the mess. FWIW one popular and valid valid criticism of Jack Dorsey founder of Twitter was that he was spread too thin trying to run Twitter and Block (Square) at the same time. How many companies is Musk running right now?
-though I'm sure he'd be loath to admit it. The choices he's making have the potential to reverberate throughout the world, in ways it might be hard to predict. Musk may or may not fail with Twitter, but it's also worth wondering what "success" might look like for him, and what effects that "success" might have on the world at large.
Yes he is very impactful because of several of his products that are changing our world.

I am not ready to join the liberal chorus of Musk detractors.

JR
 
Why just liberals? Proponents of free market capitalism, myself included, can't stand the guy and his hypocrisy.
the loudest voices appear to be coming from the left... I have long been critical of how Elon's companies are never far from the government subsidy teat, this is arguably clever, not stupid. In my judgement he has done far more good than bad for the world, while he is not operating charities.

He is a bit of a blowhard and probably tweets while high... (speculation).

JR
 
I've said it before, but what about GDIY? Why are you even here if "free speech" (as defined by US right-wing extremists) is so important to you?
First, I have on multiple occasions stated that I am against eliminating the Brewery or banning topics of discussion here. I much prefer more freedom (of speech and everything else) than less. Second, I don't see this forum as anything like the "digital public square" that big social media companies have become. It's more like a small nerdy club with a pretty narrow focus and, as a result, not that many real members (relatively speaking).

Finally, free speech is for everyone and it wasn't that long ago that people who claimed to be liberals understood and supported it. Now it's quite a different story. Surely you can see the difference.
 
Other places would try to reduce costs by using mandatory pay cuts for a year (10-15%) and/or forced time off (every employee must take two weeks off during each quarter using PTO or as unpaid leave). You know what? I didn't hear anyone crying and whining and posting on the internet about how unfair it all was. Welcome to "at-will" employment. Life isn't always fair or easy. Get used to it.
Man, you say this like it's normal, even desirable for these situations to occur. No one should be obligated to 'get used to it'.

It's a conflation of completely separate things to say that people don't deserve job security because life isn't fair. Life isn't fair when your cat gets run over or your mum is diagnosed with cancer. A mega corp firing half its staff in the pursuit of $$$ has absolutely nothing to do with 'life isn't fair'. It's an entirely calculated scenario driven by greed. Whether you think it's ok or not is a separate question, but to try to paint it as something that just happens sometimes and / or can't be helped is patently false.


Back on track : it seems to be common knowledge at this point that half the staff were laid off and then a further 1200 quit last week. If 50-70% of staff were fired / resigned from the companies I've worked for in the past, the companies would limp on for a while and then almost certainly grind to a halt. The companies I worked for required 99.99% service uptime with round the clock monitoring and engineering support. When enough people leave, sooner or later something *will* fail catastrophically and the right person will not be available to fix it.

As advertisers are leaving in droves, musk is posting a semi pornographic tweet direct to Donald trump trying to entice him back. Wonder how that's going to go down with the biggest advertisers.

These things ^^^ are matters of public record at this point. No mind reading or 'trusted sources' required.

Let's reconvene in a week and see how things stand :)
 
Man, you say this like it's normal, even desirable for these situations to occur. No one should be obligated to 'get used to it'.
Having worked in Silicon Valley for 27+ years prior to retirement I can say with conviction that it is not unusual. Boom and bust cycles occur. I spent 7 years in semiconductor capital equipment late 90s into mid 2000s. That industry had an 18-24 month periodic cycle then and layoffs during the downturns were normal.

Later I spent another 7+ years in flat panel display capital equipment which had two bad down turns which resulted in several rounds of layoffs.

Other companies in other industries where I worked also had lean times and layoffs.

It's a conflation of completely separate things to say that people don't deserve job security because life isn't fair. Life isn't fair when your cat gets run over or your mum is diagnosed with cancer. A mega corp firing half its staff in the pursuit of $$$ has absolutely nothing to do with 'life isn't fair'. It's an entirely calculated scenario driven by greed. Whether you think it's ok or not is a separate question, but to try to paint it as something that just happens sometimes and / or can't be helped is patently false.
Your understanding of business is clouded by some blue-sky magic thinking. Yes, there are some greedy people around. Yes, some asshats make bad decisions that result in job losses. But, on the whole, running a successful business is not easy and real choices have to be made that sometimes aren't pleasant. That, simply put, is life. As an adult you should be able to comprehend this fact.

If a business is running in the red and a return to net profitability is not visible for a year (based on orders, contracts, forecasts, macro economic trends, etc) then choices have to be made. If costs aren't cut then even more people may be put out of work when the company finds itself in worse shape down the road. Minimize your personal exposure by putting effort in and doing conscientious work. Slackers and troublemakers are the first to go in a RIF (well, after contractors).

Personally, I appreciated the fact that two places I worked tried to avoid layoffs by implementing temporary pay cuts and/or forced time off. That was a smart way to avoid losing good people during a bad business cycle.

Note that "at will" employment works both ways. If you don't like the work, the management, or the way the business is run you are free to find another job. I did that quite a few times in my career. Only once was the change not my decision. I have no regrets of consequence. I worked, learned, achieved, sometimes failed, kept at it, met a lot of interesting people, and did my best. That's life.

Back on track : it seems to be common knowledge at this point that half the staff were laid off and then a further 1200 quit last week. If 50-70% of staff were fired / resigned from the companies I've worked for in the past, the companies would limp on for a while and then almost certainly grind to a halt. The companies I worked for required 99.99% service uptime with round the clock monitoring and engineering support. When enough people leave, sooner or later something *will* fail catastrophically and the right person will not be available to fix it.

I worked at a couple of places that were very bloated and could easily have survived a 50% cut. One was a startup. It failed in stages with big layoffs after growing way too fast and eventually folded. Had the management focused on their original plan instead of trying to do too many things and finishing none of them (with ever increasing staffing) they might have survived to IPO. The other is a huge corporation that is the most inefficient place I've ever worked. That's all I'll say about it.

As advertisers are leaving in droves, musk is posting a semi pornographic tweet direct to Donald trump trying to entice him back. Wonder how that's going to go down with the biggest advertisers.
The market will decide, no? And Musk will react (or not). Why are you so concerned about it?

These things ^^^ are matters of public record at this point. No mind reading or 'trusted sources' required.
But Musk's plans and goals are not, so you really don't know the whole picture.

Let's reconvene in a week and see how things stand :)
I thought we'd already done that. I'm just an innocent bystander. Don't have an account and never have. I'm just an observer.
 
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