What medium are the members of the lab tracking to?

[AudioJunkie]

Straight to stereo on my HHB CDR-800.

I do everything in whole takes, and pick the best take, or if there's a really easy place to splice, then i might do that. But I prefer to do things the easy way and PREPARE the music so it doesn't take 20 takes to get one phrase right.

Then I import the selected tracks in my CDRW drive into Spark XL and do whatever processing I need to and then burn.

Hoping to upgrade to a Masterlink so i have a hard drive recorder and can do 88.2k/24-bit.

Then again, what little recording I do yet, is classical or small jazz combo.

8 to 16 tracks I could understand for large orchestral studio recording. But I don't really understand having 24, 48, 56, 64 tracks when most bands are no more than 5 or 6 musicians.
Of course, i don't really have any studio experience yet so I could just not understand what those huge boards are for.

Daniel

 

[jrmintz]

I use Pro Tools HD, 192 I/O and mix to 1/2" Scully. PT isn't a Studer 800, the best-sounding machine I've ever heard (I've never heard an Ampex 124, they're supposed to be great) but I find if I'm careful with what I put in, it gives it back to me nicely.

8 to 16 tracks I could understand for large orchestral studio recording. But I don't really understand having 24, 48, 56, 64 tracks when most bands are no more than 5 or 6 musicians.

I'm working on a session right now with about seventy tracks - drums, acoustic and electronic percussion, horns, acoustic and electric guitars, bass, strings, 3 stereo grand piano tracks (close mic and room for each), lead and background vocals. Granted, it is a grandiose track (it's actually a remake of a Phil Spector record) but there is no fat on it. I've comped what I can, but without bouncing tracks together it can't be any smaller than it is. You could argue esthetically that it could be smaller, but for what it is, it's as small as it can be.

:guinness: :sam:

 

[Nat]

1" 16 track Tascam MS16 onto BASF/Emtec 911, down to 1/4" Studer B67 onto 456.

 

[tony dB]

Audiojunkie,

I'm tracking a 5 piece band rightnow and the first livetakes run over 25 tracks on some songs.
That's 18 mikes on drums, Bass DI + closemiked cab and lineout of the amp, gtr1 closeamped + 2 rooms, gtr 2 identical and a guidevocal mike.

Not to sound posh or something but this is a very normal setup and the band isn't even a metalcombo with 7899 toms etc... :green:

on mixdown of the better projects i find myself sometimes having limited all of this to 18-24 tracks or just having 56-90 faders open...

It all depends on what the project asks for. must punkrockbands i can do on -16 tracks too.

Cheers,

Tony

 

[dale116dot7]

Somehow you always manage to fill up all available tracks.
:grin:

 

[Svart]

drums=5 mics(without micing toms, 13 with toms, hats, etc..)
guitar1=2+2DI
guitar2=2+2DI
bass=1+1DI
vocals=1 or 2

equals 16 or up to 24 tracks just for a simple band to semi live record. yes we can trim this down to 2 tracks at a time easy but time=money to customers and when you just absolutely positively HAVE to take money from less experienced or talented "bands" you need them to tell others about how great the experience was and how BIG your system is. that's no joke, you guys know that people are bought by advertising and hype before true ability and good gear. Lets take Profools. People demand it by name because someone else used it and it turned out good in a short period of time. Because of this a lot of big analog based studios are closing down because there is no analog customer base now. any Joe can go get the latest Digi001/002 and make a cd at home. does this compare to a real studio? NO. Does this take learning and perfection? NO, that's the point. it's cheap and decent enough for their peers to admire all at the click of a mouse button. Now it's more than just being able to record music/speech, you have to have something that sets you apart from others. We have to compete with companies selling simplicity in a box for cheap. this amounts to the same as some kind of mating ritual. you have to treat even your worst customers like your best, you have to sell your gear as the best (because Joe Schmo can't hear the difference like a seasoned pro can..), you even have to have perks and sales just to get them in the door and keep them coming back.

sorry for the rant, just trying to argue the point that it feels like no matter how many tracks you run these days, or no matter what your reasons for using ________ brand gear, the truth behind true professional work these days is the ability to sell your work better than your competitor.

well that's my opinion, i may be wrong... :green:

 

[tony dB]

even the Beatles were already marketed better then their oponents...

whatever you do for a living these days marketing will be a VERY important part of it, sad but damn right :sad:

 

[tony dB]

not wanting to diminuish the importance of the Fab 4 for all who came after them!

John Lennon still Lives!!! :grin:

 

[DrFrankencopter]

When I'm recording....which is very little these days, it's going to Emu Paris. I've got a little 32 track setup with 26 analog inputs and 18 analog outputs. It suits my needs just fine, and sounds pretty good too. There are some issues though, like OS Support (only win ME and below is officially supported thoug there are hacks to get it to work with XP), there's not VSTi or sequencing or any fancy stuff, no subgroups (which really sucks), and no aux send automation (which kinda sucks), but it's probably the most intuitive DAW I've ever used, which lets me get around real fast on it...I rarely feel like I'm fighting the machine.

Oh, and I have a 2" MCI JH-10 16 track which is sitting in a garage right now.....maybe when I retire I'll find the time to dedicate to fix that sucker!

Cheers,

Kris

 

[b3groover]

MOTU 1224 and 24i into a Windows XP machine running Cubase SX. Runs great, sounds good, and gives me 32 inputs and 12 outputs.

I'm going to add a 2408 mkII soon (anyone have one they want to sell?) since I just bought a Fostex D160 for location recording and used it this past week to record a small tour my trio did (7 nights!). I figure the easiest way to get all those tracks into the computer is via the ADAT optical outs on the Fostex.

 

[AudioJunkie]

Okay, maybe once I have some audio courses i'll understand this more. But why 13-18 mics for drums? 5 or so I could understand.

I understand about the whole "big name fancy gear to attract clients" thing. And I agree, that's so stupid. Especially since most of the recordings getting shoveled out by most of the big studios sound like crap anyway. No offense to anyone here, I'm sure we all strive for higher quality work than the mainstream.

It's just that every freakin' thing I hear on the radio sounds the same. I couldn't tell you the difference between Gobsmack, Hooba-skank or Effervescence. I've gotten to the point where I listen to legendary jazz albums, classical, albums recorded before around 1985, and a rare occaisional modern album that i get recommended and might actually like if I can listen through the crap mastering job.

Even in the classical world, what passes for "phenominal" or "extraordinary" today is just plain pathetic or horendous. But i could go on with the classical area for pages. heh

Or maybe I just need to listen more and suffer through the bad stuff and I'll find a little more that isn't as bad as I think it is.

Any recommendations for decent groups?
Daniel

 

[HiString]

UK,

The Fostex D108 is fine........if your sound is right at the source. The weak link, if any, would more likely be in room acoustics, "musical" ability of the artist, instrument quality (setup and tuning, etc), mic positioning, innapropriate choice of gear for the song being tracked, etc., etc., blah, blah.

Up to now I've been tracking through a S/craft 24/8 buss direct into a Fostex D160 and mixed down to PC for burning to CD, but the rack gear has grown and we recently purchased a Tascam ATR60-16trk 1" and an Otari MX5050 2 trk, so I will now have the choice of tracking to either digital or tape and mixing down to PC or tape..........also, it may be possible to synch the D160 and ATR-60 to give me a kind of hybrid system of 30 odd tracks.

 

[jrmintz]

Okay, maybe once I have some audio courses i'll understand this more. But why 13-18 mics for drums? 5 or so I could understand.

Daniel,

Hopefully your audio courses will teach that there is no over-arching right or wrong about these things. Why 18 mics on the drums? Because you're trying to achieve some unique room ambience and that's how it makes sense to you to do it. Or because you don't know what you're doing and you can't hear the phase cancellation that's going on. The key is what works for you the day you have to deliver the goods, and dogma has to go out the window. What's right is what sounds good to you. How you use whatever tools are available to make it sound good is what makes you innovative and creative. The only really important preconception is what you want the finished product to sound like. If you have a clear idea of that, you can make the record with a cassette machine and a Radio Shack mic if you're really good. If you don't have a clear idea of what you're going for, no SSL 9K and pile of vintage gear is going to help you.

Does that make sense?

:thumb:

 

[Svart]

Yes, Audiojunkie I agree. room acoustics, however important, are just not important today if you catch what i mean. when was the last time you heard a really good room on drums coming from one of these cookie cutter rock bands? when was the last time that room sound was REAL and not 5 processors or plug-ins chained? OR, a good room squashed to death by engineer/producer/master engineer overproducing in order to have the hottest cd..

 

[tony dB]

well i was listening to a good room all day long :green:
still only got drums, bassgtr and gtrs of 2 songs recorded in 12 hours and neither the band nor i sucked at doing this. :?
It all depends on how far your going to take your projects. I like to go all the way and as a result of this attitude i'm lucky enough i can live and feed a 5-piece family for the last 12 years on my audioskills only. I had no other training then just doing it, btw... not meaning that you shouldn't get decent education and training (still wished i had!)

I'm sure i'm not the only musician/tech/engineer/mixer/producer like this around here too...

Sometimes i too only use 5 mikes on a drumkit but then the editing possibilities are limited. i mean stuff like when you want to replace only one tomtom out of 4, it will be darn difficult without all the close tracks too.

Not trying to preach here, only explaining why some project take zillion tracks to get the job done and others might not and to tell a little about professional ethics...

The only moment i want to impress the clients and/or label is when the album/production is close to finished.
I don't care if they say to other bands i was a total ass or the buttonwizard who fullfilled their dreams in a bliss during the process...
I do care to get to the moment when the new prospects come in holding one of these cd's in their hands and telling me what it means to them to be able to enjoy listening to what we accomplished, that is the musicians involved and myself.
That is my advertisement :grin: , my name is on it and out of professionalism AND pride that's really important, not the showing off of my tricks or "secrets". You can ask me whatever techniques i use, more often i will be using my ears that, as long as they last, will be the final judges of my work.

Cheers,

Tony

PS

Fostex D108 is fine........

Couldn't agree more. Most of the actual digigear is way better than the analoggear of a decade ago, just don't expect any color from it, it was never designed to ad this. It's good in putting out what comes in, bad in, bad out - valved up in, valved up out, simple. A friends album was tracked on some of these and they're scoring a nice summer radiohit with it! So far no-one rang up the national radio to complain about the quality....

 

[NewYorkDave]

This thread has got me thinking that it might be fun to have a Lab "4-track challenge."

 

[CJ]

screw that, i wanna have a jam session so i can so you punks how to play the guitar!
:razz:

 

[Consul]

I'm on drums, then! :razz:

 

[NewYorkDave]

Alla yuz are scared of the 4-track challenge, ain't ya? :wink:

They used to make great records with even less than this, but we've all gone soft now, haven't we?

 

[tony dB]

anytime Dave :green: