What the **** is this ?

[MrZpliff]

Hm, that TG pcb buisness really smells bad.... I didn't expect that price.
and concerning the case buisness, well if you ask me it doesn't feel right.

.... and TAT: You still owe me 8 EURO for those LA-2 parts you got from me....
about 2 years ago   

Edit: pls push the button below and donate it to the Forum-staff 

 

[[silent:arts]]

... Also the vk1 project as whole is on the server where those pictures are taken, maybe these other folks have also found it from there?

for sure not. and it shouldn't be on this server.

 

[seavote]

a little off topic but,"i'd rather be someone who could design something that was worth copying, then be someone who needs to rip off others"

 

[smallbutfine]

Wow, this is major sh't really.
I thought from time to time about tat's motivaton doing all that case stuff and am a bit shocked to see the worst case beeing real already--
- signing up to closed forums of extremely helpful people
- ripping off original and explicitly declared private purpose only designs
- even clones these *wrong* (missing pcb layer! ha!)
- cloning in-production designs, sell them
... and even host evidences of this freely in the net and feel offended that it is noticed by us...
BTW, those pics are still on his server, kubi. He is obviously not afraid of any consequences by copyright or other lawsuits. Well, I wouldnt dare this here in germany....

Well this is a sad story. That's what it looks like.

I know how hard it can be to make money for a living (had been a freelancer, contractor of mo'orola and now unemployed) but never came to the point of even thinking about ripping other people off blatantly...
It's a shame seeing this actually happen around here.

Is Frank already knowing about that stuff? I guess he is pretty busy with his Harrison?
(I am not a friend of bans by any means...but sometimes there seems no other way of showing people that they have crossed the frontier between liberate behaviour and BS- my few cent...)

I guess I got angry reading this thread really...

Kind regards,
Martin

 

[okgb]

well his prices have been steadily rising , and it does seem his contributions few
consider the arrogance of the name
if interested look up the meaning of the word Purusha
Not opinion but enceylopedia passage

" The parallel to Norse Ymir is often considered to reflect the myth's origin in Proto-Indo-European religion. "
it's good to read books

 

[Emperor-TK]

I don't understand the significance of the VK-1 board.  Is this one of the down-low "for personal use only" projects that was mentioned previously?  Did Purusha copy the down-low board and redistribute it (without the second layer)?

 

[Igor]

Cool! One forum member pm'd me about this thread. Interesting.
First, to say some words about Purusha.
I know him (virtually) about 3 years, and he is allways honest and really great in business.
This is what I can tell from personal experience.
Nothing unexpected that some people make clones for commercial effort.
I seen 5(!) years ago Gyraf 1176 really shit built quality with very nice red pannels
sold in Israel by folk I know very good. $2400 for stereo 1176. Relax, not Purusha's work.
At this time i was working with small local r&d company (medical stuff). Boring
First I wanted to do when opened top cover of this 1176 is to throw out this man's
hands and put them by back side into his ass.
I really hate when crap quality DIY called "custom made" and sold for big money.
Maybe this moved me to let people DIY better quality stuff for themselves.
BTW, I have some effort from PCB's, to buy stuff like SSD/soundcard etc, but it is really small money.
If someone will ask me, if I feel ok with 33609 built by people from my PCB's nad Purusha cases, I'd say YES.
First, most DIY'ers can't afford 33609, so, let's move them down from potential A*S/NE*E customers.
I know one folk who did the studio for his wife (singer), and it's really cool when pcb design you did
helps people to make music.
Really, I don't care if someone sells units done from my PCB's to others.
It is on his own... BUT, if you call this professional, do it good from A to Z, not just nice front pannel.
Why? Because to manufacture good quality audio equippment, lab setup is not cheap, some knowledge acquired, etc...
Than you come to your own designs, if not completely stupid. This way price of clones comes up twice than originals...etc.
I think smart guys got my point. By the same way, I'd hate if 2254c will appear on Ebay built by ass hands.

OK, let's take a look from other side.
Purusha have enough effort from cases. I don't think he did clones for effort. Pointless.
But there's other word, jealousy. If your neighbour have better house, there's something wrong.

There can be people who simply hate him by this reason...
Just, to summarize... I like his cases and don't think he did clones for effort.

 

[okgb]

He did admit he profits from them ,
so maybe you would call him a good businessman

some people do some things that rub others wrong
one consequence is less availability of cool projects
for people here because of the actions of others

many have listed points about him pro & Con ,
many of those seem correct

Some people are upset , and his response is " i did nothing wrong ? "

I wouldn't call it jealousy , i would call it a lack of respect
as in  " you get treated the way you treat others " on his part .

Or why do some people attract negative energy ?

 

[[silent:arts]]

Igor, with all respect:

I bought your 33609 PCBs, and the case from Purusha.
(only since it was not available separately)
the case came with an original NEVE Logo, which wasn't advertised and published before, and I didn't order this.
personally I don't want to have a NEVE Logo in my rack.

however, what would be your thoughts if I ask you for the Gerbers of your PCBs, since I only want to make two other units for me and my friends ?
and then you get support requests from all over the world for those PCBs ?
you find one readily build on Gearslutz ...

I have nothing against Purushas Case Business, as long as he asks for permission and don't copy other designs.
at the end mostly all the cases in my rack are made by him (I have had two custom made orders)

OK, let's take a look from other side.
Purusha have enough effort from cases. I don't think he did clones for effort. Pointless.
But there's other word, jealousy. If your neighbour have better house, there's something wrong.

I doubt this

 

[shabtek]

hmmm-kmhhh
NotTooOT
'uncle fester' said he would let me have files to do a home etch of the tg...if i removed my post about how the pcb was too much money for me...but now i get no response.

 

[Igor]

Hm...I ordered from him a lot of cases for my own pre's/comps/mastering stuff.
All on time, good quaility, yes. Good businesmann, yes. Good folk, as I know him, yes.
Hm..OK. Throw him out from forum, there will be others who immediately will offer cases, don't think if same quality.
I know some guys from this forum selling the clones in huge qty's. Crap quality. You think you can stop them? NO.
BTW, this is the reason I not selling more than 4 2254C pcb's at one shipping address..
If Purusha sold his vary-mu clone from the studio, mark him as bad cloner.
Dou you want good Israely M-16? Maybe helpfull.
Open your eyes, I getting a lot of mails from real cloners who sells this stuff in huge quantity's, to "friends".
My friend Fester got a lot of mails about TG... One folk (not Purusha) asked him for discount on 50(!) pcb's!!!!
Purusha? Wrong address IMHO.

Or why do some people attract negative energy ?

Ahem...by Tao philosophy, it goes by the way it should go

 

[Igor]

I bought your 33609 PCBs, and the case from Purusha.
(only since it was not available separately)

Yap. This way I can know it is not sold in x10 qty's.

however, what would be your thoughts if I ask you for the Gerbers of your PCBs, since I only want to make two other units for me and my friends ?

To avoid mass pro of clones, this is the reason I sell PCB's only and they are bit overprised. No self-etching at all.
I almost got heart attack when seen this 1176 5 years ago

and then you get support requests from all over the world for those PCBs ?

Yap. I like to help people in free minute to build this stuff. Kinda hobbie.

I have nothing against Purushas Case Business, as long as he asks for permission and don't copy other designs.

For 3 last years, never had this experience with him. At least, I know 100% true that he never stolled my designs

BTW, it worth to see posts of some poor self-etchers

Ok than, I'll step aside.

IMHO guys instead of making Purusha world evil commercial cloner you'd better take a look on real shit happens arround.

 

[[silent:arts]]

Ahem...by Tao philosophy, it goes by the way it should go

and this way it goes.

Igor, now I would have the time to answer some questions but now the post looks edited ...

I don't think I have to post pictures of Logos on front panels, we all know it, and Purple Audio knows it now too.
If it is necessary I can mail some pics to NEVE too.

since your hobby is helping other people out with DIY, I could redirect the questions to you instead of the seller ?
it is not only you getting heart attacks seeing some builds ...

Best
Volker

 

[Igor]

it is not only you getting heart attacks seeing some builds ...

Hi Volker, can understand...
Yes, I typing slow, and seen some posts appeared at this time, and added some words.

since your hobby is helping other people out with DIY, I could redirect the questions to you instead of the seller ?

Hm...It will be interesting to see my stuff sold "to friends".
Usually, people who can assemble it have enough level in electronics to do their own designs

 

[okgb]

or everything is exactly the way it should be ,
and the proof is , that it is

so if people have had enough and are expressing it ,
then that should be

 

[emrr]

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/384445-how-much-do-parts-thermionic-culure-phoenix-cost.html

 

[rrs]

WOW

Being part of this forum has been great and the experiance of DIY very educational It has given me great self confidence that I am able to build something I would never have thought possible. Using Pursua's Cases (sometimes FPE also), Volkar's PCB's and Analags great designs as well as some of the clones has made recording music much more fulfilling knowing I have has an input into building the gear.

Honestly if we lost the services of people like this it would spell the end of something special that is happening here.

I honestly hope that the moderators of this forum can see past the agendas of individual members here and keep this place on track.

BUT.....
I do see the point that selling this gear for comercial profit must be avoided. I don't understand why anyone would need to purchase more than 4 set's of anything so if anything need's to be monitored it's this.

 

[sahib]

Honestly if we lost the services of people like this it would spell the end of something special that is happening here.

I honestly hope that the moderators of this forum can see past the agendas of individual members here and keep this place on track.

You are in contradiction here.

Infringing other people's intellectual rights is illegal. And, being an accesory to it is equally illegal. Therefore, I am sure that the owners of this forum is taking this issue seriously.

Two very important points caught my eye.

Justin was quite happy to allow one of his products to be cloned for personal use. And, Ed Anderson also allowed their colour theme to be used but explicitly indicated that their designation should not be used. So, there is a broken trust here.

I do not wish Tat to lose his business, in fact I have recently ordered an EQ case from him. I am also not a nosy person and what people do in their own bedroom is their business. But when you are exposed with your pants down to your ankles in a hotel room you are at a cross road. Resign or get the sack.

 

[rrs]

I don't think I endorsed infringing on peoples intellectual rights.

But it is very confusing. I built the GSSL compressor which was my first DIY around 4 years ago and is what introduced me to this forum.
It seem to my understanding that the SSL Buss compressor is a commercial product still in production today. Is it illegal/ immoral to copy this design or part of for profit or gain. I understand most wouldn't do it for profit but we would clearly gain from building one. What about supplying parts to aid builders of the GSSL compressor?

I understand the original intentions for this project but it has been exploited by some. Some seem to get and endorsement to do so and some have developed an unsavory reputation but the line between the two seem very thin.

I would urge those throwing mud to cool down a little an see that this place is more that just a cloning factory for electronics hacks but a place where the spirit of kindness and encouragement from others exists like no other. I have seen this place develop greatly over the past few years and am always amazed at the generosity displayed by many and am extremely shocked at the out of character comments and attacks I have seen here recently .

 

[sahib]

I did not intend to imply that you endorsed it. I merely indicated that two of your statements contradicted each other.

In terms of GSSL etc. we have discussed that at some point but due to strong disagreements it was mutually withdrawn between myself and Jacob, whom I believe to be a fine person and like his work.

GSSL design has Jacob's input and strictly speaking it can not be regarded as a copy in the whole. It is more like "influenced by" and there is no problem in being influenced by another design. That is an accepted practice in the industry. However, I always maintained that using GSSL designation was risky, not as a word alone but being associated with a particular sound that belonged to an SSL design. But if you isolate SSL sound from the discussion, then I don't think anybody can say anything about GSSL designation. Anyhow, I am sure Jacob secured his position legally and that is why it is still called GSSL.

Now, if you copy an equipment case and put a copyrighted logo on it that is different. And if the person specifically asks you not to do it is very different. In such case I believe the person has the right to be "angry".

I value this forum at least as much as you do, but I am a professional in this industry and I don't think it is right to keep quite when there is a wrong doing.