Entropy continued

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Attachments

  • easterwater1.jpg
    easterwater1.jpg
    168.1 KB · Views: 0
Sorry I didn't watch the video but find it interesting that drinking water could affect thyroid hormones. I have been medicating a low thyroid output condition for years since discovering it with routine blood testing. That said I have not consumed any of my local tap water for decades since I installed my RO filtering system that effectively filters out such extras.

My local tap water would kill beer yeast when I used it to home brew beer. The RO filter made my water suitable for beer making.

JR

PS; I have been fighting my pack rat instincts but decided to keep the old water filter canisters that I just replaced, in case I need to swap them again. Despite the sediment filter canister being badly stained they are both still serviceable.
 
Sorry I didn't watch the video but find it interesting that drinking water could affect thyroid hormones
....a couple of points in the video......the stuff they add to disinfect the water inadvertently changes the water from an alkaline state to an acid one. And the chemicals used have been readily shown to affect reproductive health....
 
Nice little car John. How many HP?
Not that much, just over 300HP. It was OK for over 25 years ago and still runs good. I logged 21 MPG on my last fill up.

I've been looking at maybe a 20 years newer used mustang with the coyote generation motor. It looks like used car prices are softening some, while car makers have inventory building up for EVs (100 days)... too bad I don't want an EV. Even though the Mack E is faster than the IC coyote mustangs.

JR
 
Wouldn't mind veering into this a bit...Our fluoride levels are

Interesting stuff on water.

Sidebar Trivia -- I used to write Annual Water Quality Reports called Consumer Confidence Report (CCR) required by the EPA. I did not do the testing. I wrote the legally required reports according to EPA Regulations. My clients had very good, clean water sources. There was good money in it.

I wonder whether "Consumer Confidence" was an apt title or merely a euphemism . . . . . :) James
 
That video is full of FUD. Yes, fluoride in water isn't healthy, if you drink many liters per day and have a genetic predisposal. In reality, it's not something to worry about.

And if you tell me that having less Ca and Mg in the water makes it acidic, you're a fool. Less minerals makes water neutral. Not acidic. Tap water is never acidic. Besides, your body needs those minerals.

Bottled water often contains fluoride too. Brands like Evian, don't contain fluoride. But it's mineral content is so low that you better not drink too much of it. It might affect your blood in a way that makes it unable to carry enough oxygen. A few years ago, a healthy young woman died from water after a drinking contest. Unfortunately, these low mineral waters often get used to prepare baby food. There really is no need for it. But it's one of the things the bottler companies have spent a boatload of money on and it sticks to the level that even MDs advise water with a low mineral content.

What's worrying is water that contains heavy metals, or bacteria like E. Coli. Or any of the man-made chemicals like PFAs. We don't know what they do to your body, as it's never been tested and there's no way to effectively filter these chemicals. Bottled water has the same problem, though. Natural sources have been contaminated and there isn't much we can do about it.

Filtering is useless, unless you use a series of real filters. That simple Britta thing will change taste by absorbing chlorine, but doesn't stop heavy metals, or bacteria. It might even add bacteria if it isn't replaced in time.
 
Less minerals makes water neutral. Not acidic
It makes it less alkaline?

Besides, your body needs those minerals.
So neutralizing them with other things to disinfect the water is ???
Brands like Evian, don't contain fluoride. But it's mineral content is so low that you better not drink too much of it.
I always thought Evian was considered an alkaline water? So just a marketing thing?? Or maybe it was something else.. I never really liked the taste anyway..

But again, if tap water disinfectants are neutralizing minerals??? Are there some numbers to look at to see what this means? Obviously water is different everywhere. I can go over a county and get different tap water..
Filtering is useless, unless you use a series of real filters.
I used to get the 5 gallon jugs of Crystal water but have been filling them instead at those machines that are supposedly checked by the dept of agriculture often. They have some several stage filtration in them but I haven't bothered to look into it. This interests me now.

Just not sure what to look for so any insight is definitely welcome.... I just know our tap water makes me want to gag from the chemical smell when I remember having no problem taking a swig from the faucet or garden hose back when I was younger... Maybe my tastes have changed...
 
My brother (RIP) had a Camaro back in the 70s...I think I read that GM was going to stop making them. Maybe they'll try to bring it back as an EV to compete with the machE, but for now the big three automakers are shipping wheelbarrows full of cash with every EV they sell ($30+k), and the market for them is going a little soft (100 days of dealer inventory).
===
I took advantage of the last couple days of summer warm weather to wash my car today, cleaning off the last of scooter's muddy cat prints.
===
I am not a water expert, but know that my local tap water kills beer yeast. I don't drink or cook with the stuff, but sometimes I can smell it in the shower water. I ASSume if my tap water smells like bleach, that is better than what it would smell like without the bleach. 🤔 AFAIK Bleach is a common (redneck) water supply disinfectant. It is basically dilute HCL (hydrocloric acid). I recall my mother dumping some clorox down into our lake house well when it got funky from a dead critter falling in or something like that.

JR
 
It makes it less alkaline?

Yes.

So neutralizing them with other things to disinfect the water is ???

It doesn't matter much. Neutral (Ph 7) water is tasteless and potentially even a bit harmful. If you'd drink several liters in a short period, it could cause the mineral level in your blood to go far enough down to cause unconsciousness and even death.

I always thought Evian was considered an alkaline water? So just a marketing thing?? Or maybe it was something else.. I never really liked the taste anyway..

It's possible I have the wrong brand. It's just an example. It's taste and a target for marketeers. The taste is real, the health benefits are not.

But again, if tap water disinfectants are neutralizing minerals??? Are there some numbers to look at to see what this means? Obviously water is different everywhere. I can go over a county and get different tap water..

Disinfectants are added, not neutralising. Only UV light can be used to disinfect without adding, but it's costly.

I used to get the 5 gallon jugs of Crystal water but have been filling them instead at those machines that are supposedly checked by the dept of agriculture often. They have some several stage filtration in them but I haven't bothered to look into it. This interests me now.

I don't know these machines, but I'd guess the filtration is done before the water gets into the machine's tank?

Just not sure what to look for so any insight is definitely welcome.... I just know our tap water makes me want to gag from the chemical smell when I remember having no problem taking a swig from the faucet or garden hose back when I was younger... Maybe my tastes have changed...

Don't worry about it. You can get rid of the chlorine by letting the water sit in an open jug in the fridge. Lots of bottled water is tap water. If the label reads "Mineral water", it should come from a well. That's what the law prescribes anyway. Not that there's any way to check.

Follow your taste. Our body still is capable of telling us what it needs. Unless you're completely indoctrinated by publicity. Then you'll want a big mac and a coke...
 
Disinfectants are added, not neutralising. Only UV light can be used to disinfect without adding, but it's costly.
I forgot to mention I also have a UV disinfectant stage on the output of my RO filter. Mainly to prevent anaerobic microbes from getting established in the almost pure outlet water, lacking typical tap water disinfectants to control them. RO water shouldn't stink, but without my UV stage it did from time to time.
Follow your taste. Our body still is capable of telling us what it needs. Unless you're completely indoctrinated by publicity. Then you'll want a big mac and a coke...
I mess with adding some minerals(? Third Wave) to my coffee brew water. I suspect they are playing with the PH of the water to smooth the hard edges.

JR
 
Disinfectants are added, not neutralising
He mentions in the video that the disinfectants are inadvertently neutralizing the magnesium and calcium. But judging from the hard water stains that are abundant in the wet areas if left uncleaned, maybe not an issue..

I don't know these machines, but I'd guess the filtration is done before the water gets into the machine's tank?
https://sekiwater.com/information/what-is-glaciers-water/
 
Then you'll want a big mac and a coke...
Dangit....
Haven't had a soda in years since I did a cleanse and it knocked the want of them out of me for some reason. Pretty amazing when I think about how much I liked sodas.
But a big mac does sound good.... Been a couple of years...
Now I see why commercials work.. Wasn't even a distant thought in my mind ..
I need to go put something in my empty stomach before it convinces me...lol
 
He mentions in the video that the disinfectants are inadvertently neutralizing the magnesium and calcium. But judging from the hard water stains that are abundant in the wet areas if left uncleaned, maybe not an issue..

How would you "neutralise" Mg and Ca? Bonding to an oxidant? I'm not aware of any chemical reaction between Mg and Ca.


He mentions in the video that the disinfectants are inadvertently neutralizing the magnesium and calcium. But judging from the hard water stains that are abundant in the wet areas if left uncleaned, maybe not an issue..


https://sekiwater.com/information/what-is-glaciers-water/

Well, if it really was RO, why would it still need filters AFTER the RO system?

Real RO systems do not produce drinking water. It's just too clean, like distilled water. Tastes awful, because there's no taste at all. Conductivity of the produced water is less than 10 micro Siemens; it's simply unhealthy to drink that water every day.

The so-called RO systems for use at home, will have a very bad efficiency, as the pressure isn't high enough to push enough water through the membrane. That means a lot of water will be pushed to the sewer. There's simply no two ways about it.

Real RO only needs pre-filtering to protect the expensive socks (filter elements). And it never has any after filtering cause that would lessen the purity. Real RO systems operate on a pressure of 800 PSI or more. Not something the pressure of the tap water system can drive efficiently. You need several pumps in series to produce enough pressure.

Suppose you have a well that isn't too good tasting and not so good looking (brown water). What you need is a simple, but big sand filter, followed by aeration to oxidise the iron that causes the brown colour, followed by an activated carbon filter to capture organic mass. If there are bacteria, you also need a high power UV decontamination unit.

If the water is acidic (swamp water) you'll also need to add Ca ions to neutralise the organic acids. If it's hard water, you'll need polyester resin filled reactors to bind the Ca and Mg.

The only case for RO to produce drinking water, is if the input is seawater. I believe other processes are being used today, as RO is pretty expensive. These filtration system have been developed in the last 20 years or so and I have no experience with those.

For those interested, here's a recent (2003) paper by the WHO about drink water preparation:

https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/43403/9241593989_eng.pdf?sequence=1
Lots of valuable info without commercial bias...
 
Well, if it really was RO, why would it still need filters AFTER the RO system?

Real RO systems do not produce drinking water. It's just too clean, like distilled water. Tastes awful, because there's no taste at all. Conductivity of the produced water is less than 10 micro Siemens; it's simply unhealthy to drink that water every day.
my beverages of choice are beer and coffee, both made using RO water.
The so-called RO systems for use at home, will have a very bad efficiency, as the pressure isn't high enough to push enough water through the membrane. That means a lot of water will be pushed to the sewer. There's simply no two ways about it.
I added a permeate pump years ago to boost water pressure and improve my RO system efficiency.
Real RO only needs pre-filtering to protect the expensive socks (filter elements). And it never has any after filtering cause that would lessen the purity. Real RO systems operate on a pressure of 800 PSI or more. Not something the pressure of the tap water system can drive efficiently. You need several pumps in series to produce enough pressure.
AFAIK my system has a sediment filter pre the RO unit, and a charcoal filter post but I set it up a couple decades ago, and made several improvements over the years since.

JR
Suppose you have a well that isn't too good tasting and not so good looking (brown water). What you need is a simple, but big sand filter, followed by aeration to oxidise the iron that causes the brown colour, followed by an activated carbon filter to capture organic mass. If there are bacteria, you also need a high power UV decontamination unit.

If the water is acidic (swamp water) you'll also need to add Ca ions to neutralise the organic acids. If it's hard water, you'll need polyester resin filled reactors to bind the Ca and Mg.

The only case for RO to produce drinking water, is if the input is seawater. I believe other processes are being used today, as RO is pretty expensive. These filtration system have been developed in the last 20 years or so and I have no experience with those.

For those interested, here's a recent (2003) paper by the WHO about drink water preparation:

https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/43403/9241593989_eng.pdf?sequence=1
Lots of valuable info without commercial bias...
 
How would you "neutralise" Mg and Ca? Bonding to an oxidant? I'm not aware of any chemical reaction between Mg and Ca.
I just listened again and he said the presence of dbp can strongly impact the ph of water by altering the concentrations of magnesium and calcium... Whatever that means.
tbh I looked at the study he mentions regarding this and, unless it's in one of the citations of the study, I can't find any mention of this

So what, you're saying that filling my jugs up at the water dispenser with it's filtering is not a good idea and I should start drinking the cocktail from the tap?
 
I just listened again and he said the presence of dbp can strongly impact the ph of water by altering the concentrations of magnesium and calcium... Whatever that means.
tbh I looked at the study he mentions regarding this and, unless it's in one of the citations of the study, I can't find any mention of this

Absolute BS. If chlorine reacts with something, it's with organic matter. Carbon. Both Mg and Ca do not react with chlorine as used in tap water (max 5 mg per liter). Now there's some semantic problem here. Ca does react with pure Cl2 gas, and forms CaCl. But the disinfectant isn't Cl2, as that immediately reacts with water to form Hcl. Hcl is the same acid as is present in your stomach. The low concentration in tap water is not dangerous, nor toxic. In the gaseous form, pure Cl2 is very dangerous and very toxic, as was shown in WWI. And that's what keeps driving this BS.

So what, you're saying that filling my jugs up at the water dispenser with it's filtering is not a good idea and I should start drinking the cocktail from the tap?

I don't know. I don't know your tap water, nor the water from the machine. In some parts of the US, the tap water is bad. But in the majority of places it's good. Well, CNN ran an article that over half of tap water supplies in the US is polluted. I'd be amazed if that was true. It's more like 10%. The major problem is "man-made chemicals, like PFAs. But there also were cases like Ferguson, Flint and Baltimore.

Anyhow, here's a starting point:

https://www.ewg.org/tapwater/
Over here, we still have one town, Verviers that has bad tap water. It's a logistic problem. The piping is still lead and the first water in the morning contains lead. Not enough to kill you, but still unhealthy. The problem is that to sanitise the pipes, the entire water system needs to be switched off. That's very, very expensive, as you can supply drinking water in bags, or bottles, but that doesn't run the washing machine, or the dishwasher. Belgium has been paying a yearly fine to the EU because that's cheaper.

I'd still say that recent terrorists coming from Verviers is probably a coincidence and not due to insanity from lead poisoning, but it could contribute if these people had lived in that town long enough (and drank enough tap water.) :)

Isn't there some gov lab in the area where you live that provides free water analysis? We have that over here. It's mainly for well water, but they also analyse surface water and tap water. Besides, tap water is continually monitored. Also out of fear for terrorism. If there's anything in it that's even remotely suspicious, the feeding pumps shut down automatically. Water towers can keep the pressure feed for at least 24 hours, allowing the water company to switch to a clean feed.
 
If chlorine reacts with something, it's with organic matter. Carbon. Both Mg and Ca do not react with chlorine as used in tap water (max 5 mg per liter).
He didn't mention chlorine specifically? Just said disinfectant byproducts...dbp...

Isn't there some gov lab in the area where you live that provides free water analysis?
I'm in the eastern zone
https://www.ocfl.net/Portals/0/Libr...cs/AnnualDrinkingWaterReport2022-OCU-CERT.pdf
 
Back
Top