Neve 80 series Console Build

[remsouille]

Thanks remsouille!
But after a google search of OEP X218A04B nothing come up...
Where did you buy them?

I direct ordered a batch of 50 

 

[ilfungo]

Thanks!!!
Price?

 

[remsouille]

Thanks!!!
Price?

The price was 43€ each inc VAT !

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I know that it's been claimed elsewhere that the OEP is closer to the older transformers than the usual Carnhill, but given that OEP and Carnhill are part of the same company, can you say what the actual difference is, if any, between the two?

Nice project .

 

[remsouille]

I know that it's been claimed elsewhere that the OEP is closer to the older transformers than the usual Carnhill, but given that OEP and Carnhill are part of the same company, can you say what the actual difference is, if any, between the two?

Nice project .

Sorry, I had not seen that. Well for one thing, they're not build in the same factory, and the OEP one was "designed" before Carnhill's ownership, so here's you biggest difference. Probably a whole different build process, maybe different materials as well.
As for the differences in sound, I honestly never take time to A/B such things (I hardly even have time to assemble the goddamn console), so I tend to rely on the golden ears of our dear friend Sasarist, whose findings were corroborated by others.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Sorry, I had not seen that. Well for one thing, they're not build in the same factory, and the OEP one was "designed" before Carnhill's ownership...

Heya, no problem and thanks for the reply.  If they work like the old Marinair inputs then that's a good thing.  When you get a chance. could you post a picture for us?
Hope the build is going well thus far 

 

[remsouille]

Quick update, y'all!

I've received my first batch of transformers, 50 line ins form OEP! I'm making slow but steady progress on the frame building, it all lines up really well!

 

[SIXTYNINER]

nice progress !

cheers

ps:
have fan  testing a good quantity of transformers

 

[ruffrecords]

I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module.

Cheers

Ian

I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.

It's a  sticky area.  There's no crime in putting whatever logo you want on something you build and keep for yourself.
It'd become a problem if this stuff were sold on, even if sold with no deception involved and everything disclosed.    Because Remsouille would have no control over what the chain of ownership after that sale would turn into.

I personally don't believe remsouille has any deception whatsoever in mind.  He wants the look and the sound of a classic Neve desk and that's it.    The internals are obviously a new/modern layout and don't resemble Neve's build anyway. 

Story:  I once bought an ex BBC desk loaded with Calrec PQ15s modules from Mark Linett.  It had been refurbished etc.  by Brent Averil. 
I didn't know, and Mark didn't tell me, that the router modules were not original.  I didn't notice. My bad on that part? 

When I got the desk home and found out I was a bit miffed. This was a desk that had been bought for many $thousands.  In cash.  In good faith.
However, upon looking through the extensive BBC/Calrec documentation, I concluded that the desk was now more useable as a recording desk due to  said *new* routers than it had been before as a BBC broadcast desk.   
This is part of my ancient history anyway and I hold no ill will.  If anything, I feel more negatively towards myself for not noticing in the first place. 

I dunno?  Remsouille is doing a cracking job, it looks the part.  When he gets done he'll probably have years of enjoyment from it.


P.S.  Maybe don't show the logos on here anymore.  We don't need to know all the details of what goes on in the privacy of your own home    We would like to see the progress as it happens though 

 

[remsouille]

I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.

It's a  sticky area.  There's no crime in putting whatever logo you want on something you build and keep for yourself.
It'd become a problem if this stuff were sold on, even if sold with no deception involved and everything disclosed.    Because Remsouille would have no control over what the chain of ownership after that sale would turn into.

I personally don't believe remsouille has any deception whatsoever in mind.  He wants the look and the sound of a classic Neve desk and that's it.    The internals are obviously a new/modern layout and don't resemble Neve's build anyway. 

Story:  I once bought an ex BBC desk loaded with Calrec PQ15s modules from Mark Linett.  It had been refurbished etc.  by Brent Averil. 
I didn't know, and Mark didn't tell me, that the router modules were not original.  I didn't notice. My bad on that part? 

When I got the desk home and found out I was a bit miffed. This was a desk that had been bought for many $thousands.  In cash.  In good faith.
However, upon looking through the extensive BBC/Calrec documentation, I concluded that the desk was now more useable as a recording desk due to  said *new* routers than it had been before as a BBC broadcast desk.   
This is part of my ancient history anyway and I hold no ill will.  If anything, I feel more negatively towards myself for not noticing in the first place. 

I dunno?  Remsouille is doing a cracking job, it looks the part.  When he gets done he'll probably have years of enjoyment from it.


P.S.  Maybe don't show the logos on here anymore.  We don't need to know all the details of what goes on in the privacy of your own home    We would like to see the progress as it happens though 

Very well summed up, thank you !

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Very well summed up, thank you !

Just saying it as I saw it 

Let us know about those transformers when you get to it, I'm very interested

 

[remsouille]

Just saying it as I saw it 

Let us know about those transformers when you get to it, I'm very interested

I've had OEP's inputs (both line and mic) in a 1073 for a couple of years now and I prefer that unit to my Carnhill loaded 1290s. But then again, it's a whole different unit, with different caps, transistors... and of course a proper 1073 looks better, and that probably is THE game killer  ;D
To be totally honest, I've trusted other's ears more than mine on that matter. I've pretty much only ever been using 1073 type preamps, so I don't hear them anymore. They're just a necessity to me, a utility thing dare I say. I lost the crave for different preamp flavours long ago, which is why this console build probably makes so much sense to me. Having it all at hand and embracing the one sound I've only ever known.  It also makes so much more sense in the context of how I work, and the vibe at my studio. For those interested here's a link to my studio's website http://www.whitebatrecorders.com

Several golden-eared fellows who are very influential on this build all deem these OEP best, or at least truest to the original ones, so I trust them.  At least there's one thing I don't have to worry about anymore  ;D  In the end, once the signal hits tape (and buss amps and compressors and tape machine transformers before that), I doubt one can really hear the variation in mic pre input transformers anymore  ; 8)

The one giving me nightmares at the moment is the LO1166... This one has the biggest impact in any Neve design  and the Carnhill ones just aren't right, I'm sort of getting tired of having to carve out lo-mid mud all the time. We need to figure that out. If anyone, for example, could lend me one from the old Prodigy group order ones for evaluation, I'd be eternally grateful!

 

[Winston OBoogie]

The one giving me nightmares at the moment is the LO1166... This one has the biggest impact in any Neve design  and the Carnhill ones just aren't right, I'm sort of getting tired of having to carve out lo-mid mud all the time. We need to figure that out. If anyone, for example, could lend me one from the old Prodigy group order ones for evaluation, I'd be eternally grateful!

Thanks for the low down on the OEP's, I think a lot of folks will be interested in using them for sure.  I am.

I agree on the LO1166 Carnhills not being quite right.  Carnhill never did make the outputs for classic Neve and I've heard conflicting stories about whether what's in the Neve re issue 1073 types are exactly the same as what you or I can buy, or are exclusive parts made just for them.

That low end mud from the Carnhills when you've run a signal through the channel amp, the router, the bus amp etc does build up, especially over all tracks. To a much lesser extent, it does too on an original desk.  My thinking, if I ever were in a position to do something like this,  has been to possibly sod originality and maybe try the Sowter version.  It's a more balanced tone for sure.  But copying the Prodigy or going over C.J.'s autopsy reports with a person who will take care to do it right is a good idea too.   

I admire that you've identified the sound you want and have committed to it, that's how it was in the old days.  There weren't racks of various flavour pres to choose from.     

Anyway, I've taken up way too much space on your thread,  thanks for the updates,  keep going 

 

[ruffrecords]

I don't see a Neve logo on the router module shown, although there was a subsequent edit done so it could have been air-brushed out.

That is because he has replaced the original picture. Fortunately I kept a copy:

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

That is because he has replaced the original picture. Fortunately I kept a copy:

Well yes, I said it was possible an edit to the picture had been made.

Being an ex employee of Neve as you are, I do see where you're coming from.  Even with that aside I  see your point.

If we were to go hunting for bigger game than the folks here who build stuff for their own use -  I  can personally think of dozens of classic desks, originally built by Neve, EMI, API etc., that are in use in the biggest studios you can think of -  where whole sections, or extra channel modules have been created from new -  to expand, update,  or replace missing modules.  These new modules are externally indistinguishable from those which came from the original factory.  Resplendent with original logos.

Unless something is fraudulently sold as being something it isn't, the issue can only be debated on a moral basis.

Again, dunno?  If it makes someone happy to build something with a certain look for themselves, is that wrong? 
These particular modules would never pass as original Neve given the internal  construction, so fobbing them off as such in a sale is highly unlikely.

Anyway, peace, love, and understanding 

 

[ruffrecords]

I think a little context will help clarify matters.  In reply #24 on 26th May 2017 the OP posted a front panel design for the routing module which included a Neve logo.

In reply #30 I said "You do realise copying the Neve logo could be a copyright infringement."

to which the op in reply#31 said "Which is why we didn't "

and reply#28 picture was updated showing two modules of that design without a logo. So the clear implication the OP has thought better of it and decided to remove the logo from the design. End of story as far as I was concerned.

So you can imagine why I was surprised nearly three years later to see him post a picture of a module with the Neve logo on it.  And all I said in reply #88 was:

"I thought you said you did not copy the Neve logo. Looks to me like there's one on the routing module."

Then, before Winston could reply he reposted the picture with the Neve logo photo-shopped out.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winston OBoogie]

Heya Ian,
OK, yes I just read back and can see how it transpired.
Well, whatever happens with the routers in question, I do hope you guys don't fall out and can come to an understanding if need be so that you feel comfortable still contributing to this thread.  You've added a lot so far. 

Anyway, gotta pack my bags for a long overdue break with my significant other so I'll catch up with you later...

Ciao.

 

[Squeaky]

Not trying to add fuel to the fire, or to provide advice for that matter,  just trying to provide some additional information for people to consider.

Respectfully Ian, I believe the issue relates more closely to trade mark infringement and passing off than copyright. There exists a registered Neve trade mark (stylised sinusoidal wave or "N" next to the word Neve, the wave is not in a circle). This mark is registered in various jurisdictions around the world including Australia. Most of the registrations appear active although I only took a bit of a glance in one database. Under Australian law, a registered trade mark is infringed "if the person uses as a trade mark a sign that is substantially identical with, or deceptively similar to, the trade mark in relation to goods or services in respect of which the trade mark is registered". (s 120 TMA 1995).

So one could ask oneself what constitutes "use as a sign in relation to goods or services" and what constitutes "deceptive similarity" as a starting point.

Furthermore, something else to consider is that in common law countries (such as Australia), the tort of passing off prevents one trader from misrepresenting goods or services as being the goods and services of another, and also prevents a trader from holding out his or her goods or services as having some association or connection with another when this is not true.

I won't go into it any more than this.

I also have something to add about OEP transformers, I have a couple of high nickel core output transformers from OEP that look really well made. I haven't really gotten around to testing them yet. They are  reasonably chunky transformers, not nearly as big as the steel Carnhills but larger than say the Cinemag CMOB type. I have a 1:1 and a 1:2 at hand. I have been trying to think of a simple way to A-B then against a few other output transformers I have (a mixture of steel and nickel, gapped and ungapped). OEP seem full of surprises.

 

[ruffrecords]

To reiterate all I said three years ago was using the logo might infringe Neve's copyright to which the OP replied 'which is why we didn't' which clearly means we did not use the logo. The picture posted recently clearly demonstrated that this was not true. I am not arguing about whether it does or does not infringe but rather that the OP said he did not use the logo and then did use it.

Cheers

Ian