New CK12 capsule

[Tim Campbell]

Distorter I was asking if you were Cameron (the engineer who developed this capsule) becaused you hide behind an alias. here you are speaking to Tim Campbell. I don't use an alias. I take full responsibility for what I say.

The information you have supplied to me here and in emails is a little confusing.
You have stated that you wanted my capsule to repair AKG 414's. You claim you own a FLEA F12 with my capsule. You claim that you have auditioned this new capsule against a Telefunken CK12 but not against mine which you claim you own. Did you audition the Telefunken capsule in a 414? The Flea? some other mic? The new capsule in which mic?

You keep saying that I am somehow a racist for not wanting to sell into China. You can easily buy my capsule in china in FLEA and others products. I resisted selling there from a completely business standpoint to keep my product from being copied. I proved right. When my capsule got there it was copied. It was a good business practice for me

 

[Khron]

when people mythologize this capsule, they're not crediting the engineers for 80% of their work, IMO.

I would argue that also goes for the electronics side of condenser mics, but then again, i AM biased (no pun intended whatsoever)...

 

[Wordsushi]

From the doldrums of summer comes a thread that excites and enrages. Fun! After this capsule comes out, you just know there will be a lot of posts that name drop Tim Campbell as the bar that has been set in terms of quality. Most people have zero idea what a Tim Campbell capsule even sounds like, but the reviews that say "Better than Tim Campbell" or "Just as good as Tim Campbell" will be written because that's a descriptive people interested in DIY can understand.

Now, whether it's opinion or not is immaterial as everyone has their own subjective likes and dislikes, but the ripple effect will definitely be that those unaware of this or other CK12 style capsules will emerge in internet searches for Tim Campbell and Campbell Transmitter as Google's algo loves reviews. And if people who want to buy a Tim Campbell capsule find it unavailable, or don't have their emails responded to, those willing to waitlist themselves will find their patience dwindle rapidly and possibly vanish altogether with the immediate availability of a capsule that reviews, videos and posts continue to remark on the positives they find about this new capsule vs the Tim Campbell capsule.

And there will definitely be those who will find this thread via search and be disturbed enough by what by today's standards seems like Tim Campbell's xenophobic remarks about China and be turned off of buying a Tim Campbell product forever and opt for, and give word of mouth to, an alternative CK12 choice. So yeah, I can see why Tim Campbell is apparently panic posting on this thread. This will absolutely disrupt his business. Of course there will be people who will only want the Tim Campbell capsule believing it's the best option out there, but over time all strongholds fade and the beat goes on. The market will decide, but I think we can all see where this is heading and I for one, have my popcorn popping.

 

[Tim Campbell]

From the doldrums of summer comes a thread that excites and enrages. Fun! After this capsule comes out, you just know there will be a lot of posts that name drop Tim Campbell as the bar that has been set in terms of quality. Most people have zero idea what a Tim Campbell capsule even sounds like, but the reviews that say "Better than Tim Campbell" or "Just as good as Tim Campbell" will be written because that's a descriptive people interested in DIY can understand.

Now, whether it's opinion or not is immaterial as everyone has their own subjective likes and dislikes, but the ripple effect will definitely be that those unaware of this or other CK12 style capsules will emerge in internet searches for Tim Campbell and Campbell Transmitter as Google's algo loves reviews. And if people who want to buy a Tim Campbell capsule find it unavailable, or don't have their emails responded to, those willing to waitlist themselves will find their patience dwindle rapidly and possibly vanish altogether with the immediate availability of a capsule that reviews, videos and posts continue to remark on the positives they find about this new capsule vs the Tim Campbell capsule.

And there will definitely be those who will find this thread via search and be disturbed enough by what by today's standards seems like Tim Campbell's xenophobic remarks about China and be turned off of buying a Tim Campbell product forever and opt for, and give word of mouth to, an alternative CK12 choice. So yeah, I can see why Tim Campbell is apparently panic posting on this thread. This will absolutely disrupt his business. Of course there will be people who will only want the Tim Campbell capsule believing it's the best option out there, but over time all strongholds fade and the beat goes on. The market will decide, but I think we can all see where this is heading and I for one, have my popcorn popping.

Wordsushi thanks for the straight dope. Please I am in NO panic. I have been successful for many years and if someone outsells my product I am fine with that (Ben Sneesby easily outsells me by miles). In September I will be 69 years old and should have retired years ago. That people want to hold my work up as some standard I am honored, if they buy other product good for them. People keep dragging me back into this thread instead of talking about the new capsule so I respond.

"Tim Campbell's xenophobic remarks about China" I am not xenophobic but am sure those that want to will interpret them that way. I am a businessman. As a reminder I keep on my bench 2 Neumann KMS105 that even state Made In Germany on the box and are identical to Neumann's product in EVERY cosmetic way until you disassemble them and see that the capsule is not Neumann's. These were bought and can still be bought on Aliexpress for 100 dollars and are completely made in China. I am unaware of any other country that allows this.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...479979180!sea!DK!0&curPageLogUid=sIEVxyiD7t2v

I am eagerly awaiting members first hand experiences with the new capsule.

 

[cfanzalone]

Hi All,

I guess it's okay to name vendors with my own judgement:

Re: C12 style capsules...yes, they are all "styles"...I've tried many...from the re-..."somethinged" 67 topography to from scratch "exact replicas"...

All "grades" following are my own...as a grading system that one would use if they can't afford or wait for TC12 or HK12 capsule.

I've used Maiku (A grade), re-built 67's (D-F grade) but landed on a pretty good CEK12 (B+ grade), from Mic&Mod, claims to be French-made, built from the ground up...Pretty nice capsule at a reasonable price. The frequency curve is spot-on to a CK12, but Freq. curves don't always mean everything in the real world...Some C12-style capsules named in so many previous threads I admit I've never tried.

Luck for me, I landed on a very good condition used AKG brass CK12...NOTHING can touch that...period!...Oh, I use it in a very good DYI 251 clone...(I never cared for C12's, unless it has the Large-Core Xfmr...)

A comment also: The sound files submitted by many users here, Gearspace, DYI, etc.. (although all would thank them for their contributions) Don't always push the capsule to the extreme...and I don't mean SPL!!...rarely is the entire signal chain specified. As an opera singer, I find that some of the clones are kind close to the originals in many ways for pop, but the mid congestion and the lack of open high end on the clones is very obvious to me in my genre. One always have to self-define their objectives, arrangement, instruments, signal chain, recording space, etc, etc...and then experiment and then choose the capsule, the circuit, the preamp, etc...Although a mic is primary in many circumstances, it eventually is the sum of the whole...My philosophy is to ALWAYS look for weak links...Sound recording gear is always a lottery, but helped with knowledge, experience, trial and error and...some LUCK!!

BUT REMEMBER!...it's always the performance that counts!...No $$ on gear will change that!!!

Cordially

 

[cfanzalone]

Addendum, after reading the most recent posts...Yes, I have a Tim Campbell TC12 and it is wonderful...Yes, I hate it too when people talk about what they've hear about vs. what they've actually heard.

 

[kingkorg]

Luck for me, I landed on a very good condition used AKG brass CK12...NOTHING can touch that...period!...Oh

You need to find replica that would have to be tuned to match that exact capsule in order to compare them, otherwise you compare apples to oranges. This is kind of the whole point of the discussion. The difference in high end alone depending on tuning can be over 10db.

 

[distorter]

Distorter I was asking if you were Cameron (the engineer who developed this capsule) becaused you hide behind an alias. here you are speaking to Tim Campbell. I don't use an alias. I take full responsibility for what I say.

The information you have supplied to me here and in emails is a little confusing.
You have stated that you wanted my capsule to repair AKG 414's. You claim you own a FLEA F12 with my capsule. You claim that you have auditioned this new capsule against a Telefunken CK12 but not against mine which you claim you own. Did you audition the Telefunken capsule in a 414? The Flea? some other mic? The new capsule in which mic?

You keep saying that I am somehow a racist for not wanting to sell into China. You can easily buy my capsule in china in FLEA and others products. I resisted selling there from a completely business standpoint to keep my product from being copied. I proved right. When my capsule got there it was copied. It was a good business practice for me

I don’t think Cameron is the engineer of this CK12 clone, and I want to clarify that I do not speak on his behalf or on behalf of the engineer responsible for creating this new CK12 capsule clone. I speak for myself, a user hoped for a high-quality capsule that could serve as a replacement for the vintage AKG CK12. However, in the email exchange, you turned me down simply because my location is China. You said that you can ship to the rest of the world except China. Ever since then, I have been hoping that someone in China could produce an excellent capsule to fulfill my needs.

I expressed my disappointment with your refusal to do business with individuals from China, as it seemed discriminatory based on nationality. I understand that you have valid business reasons for your decision, but I believe it's important to foster inclusivity and avoid making generalizations about a country's products.

Regarding the capsules, I did mention that I intended to purchase a CT12 capsule for my vintage AKG 414 initially. However, since I couldn't acquire it from you, I explored other options and now I found this Chinese-made CK12 that performed exceptionally well in my Telefunken USA C12 microphone. I did not compare it directly to your capsule, but rather to a CK12 from Telefunken USA.

I never accused you of being a racist. Instead, I expressed my concern about the implications of refusing to do business with an entire country.

While I understand your desire to protect your product from being copied, it's worth considering the potential benefits of expanding your market and embracing the global community of microphone users.

I respect your business decisions and the perspectives you have shared. I simply wanted to highlight the importance of approaching products and individuals without preconceived notions based on nationality.

 

[distorter]

Distorter I was asking if you were Cameron (the engineer who developed this capsule) becaused you hide behind an alias. here you are speaking to Tim Campbell. I don't use an alias. I take full responsibility for what I say.

The information you have supplied to me here and in emails is a little confusing.
You have stated that you wanted my capsule to repair AKG 414's. You claim you own a FLEA F12 with my capsule. You claim that you have auditioned this new capsule against a Telefunken CK12 but not against mine which you claim you own. Did you audition the Telefunken capsule in a 414? The Flea? some other mic? The new capsule in which mic?

You keep saying that I am somehow a racist for not wanting to sell into China. You can easily buy my capsule in china in FLEA and others products. I resisted selling there from a completely business standpoint to keep my product from being copied. I proved right. When my capsule got there it was copied. It was a good business practice for me

Also, I am here to express my thoughts freely, without the intention of changing your perspective. Personally, I believe that ceasing the sale of your capsules to an entire nation solely out of fear of replication is a flawed business approach.

Recreating a faithful replica of a brass ring AKG CK12, as you are aware, is an exceedingly difficult task. It would be wise to impede the hypothetical Chinese competitor's progress in developing a CK12 clone by providing Chinese market with the finished product. However, you have decided not to sell even a single capsule to China, instead of selling to them. This decision may actually serve as an incentive for the Chinese to manufacture a CK12 capsule that rivals the quality of yours, possibly at a more competitive price.

The United States, for instance, has long been at the forefront of chip manufacturing technology since the 1980s. Instead of stop selling chips to certain countries because of worrying about other countries catching up with their technological advancements, they have opted to sell chips at significantly reduced prices to the rest of the world. This strategy effectively deters other nations from attempting to replicate chip manufacturing technologies. I consider this approach to be a brilliant move.

I believe in freely expressing my thoughts rather than persuading you to change your viewpoint. From my perspective, discontinuing sales to an entire nation due to fears of replication is an unfavorable business strategy. By allowing the Chinese to purchase your finished product, you could potentially hinder their progress in cloning the CK12 while also fostering competition that may lead to improved quality and affordability. This concept is reminiscent of the United States' strategy of selling low-cost chips globally to slow down others’ process of researching chip manufacturing technologies, which I regard as a brilliant maneuver.

 

[kingkorg]

I just

As far a s my capsule, Kingkorg, Why would you respond so?

I wanted to make clear that it is possible to get the same result from replicas, as long as they are based on the capsule you are comparing them to. Just so DIYers are clear there is nothing mystical, or unobtainable in the originals. I hope you are not leaving because of me, my remark was not intended as an attack towards you, or your oppinion.

 

[Андрій Чубака]

For me still more important amplifier if quality of capsule is about fine.

 

[C12VR]

I think I'm going to wait for Guosheng to come out with his version. He has a good, long track record, and even normal capsules from random Chinese suppliers come out wonky, so how can we expect them to spend the time to calibrate the capsules?
also, it occurs to me that he should really engrave his capsules or otherwise provide means of authentication.

 

[kingkorg]

I overreacted to @Tim Campbell post, calling his statement childish. I was not aware of the whole backstory, and what he went through regarding the whole industrial espionage thing.

It is though important to make difference between people whom come from a certain country and are oppressed by their regimes, and the regime itself. They can not just go on the streets and use democratic principles without risking their, and families lives.

In my experience with international trade all countries are guilty of plagiarism, and espionage. Saying one principle is more moral than the next one, stealing little bit vs. stealing more is a tricky thing. Every regime has it's excuse and reasoning behind it and from their respective point of view everyone has a point.

China's progress is making many wet their pants, but please everyone, dont take it out on individuals it will always come off xenophobic no matter what the oppinion behind the thought is. Also you lose the battle every time.

I bought several of those KMS ripp-offs, make no mistake, the second you plug them in you realize they are nothing like Neumanns. So are those who make them more guilty of plagiarism than say US company who avoids lawsuit by changing the appearance slightly but say their product sounds and performs exactly as u87 which still is in production?

On the other side, be careful of western companies who import this stuff.

Universal Audio, US company recently re-branded cheap SM7 knock off which doesn't sound bad at all. This in hope to squeeze them selves into growing SM7 sales. Basically using marketing and Chinese product to sabotage sales of another US company - Shure. Yet UA has more than enough resources to develop their own product. So go figure.

 

[kingkorg]

I lied, HAH!!

This WILL be my last post here...are Y'all musicians, singers, recorders???...or just bored with nothing to do other than this diatribe?. For myself, like Tim...I've got legitimate work to do. Debate at your hearts and egos content...No offense.

In bocca al lupo !!

Since you left is there a point in answering? Or will you be back as a passive reader skimming useful stuff? None taken, i agree the result is more important than how you get there. The forum is called GroupDIY, we could be as well making DIY washing machines here. Cheers.

 

[oscarhuang]

I also emailed Tim many years ago, unfortunately I got no response. If I'm copying ck12 why am I copying Tim's? Isn't Tim the only one who can do ck12 in the world? If you want, there are many original brass heads ck12 that can be clone......

 

[Tim Campbell]

Why they haven't copied AKG's exact design I have no idea. Yes please discuss the new capsule. It is midnight and I still have many miles to go.

 

[Khron]

Universal Audio, US company recently re-branded cheap SM7 knock off which doesn't sound bad at all. This in hope to squeeze them selves in growing SM7 sales. Basically using marketing and Chinese product to sabotage sales of another US company - Shure. Yet UA has more than enough resources to develop their own product. So go figure.

A penny saved is a penny earned... sometimes unfortunately...

 

[Cappy]

CK12 is notoriously difficult to tune right, and keep stable. As i understand Tim's has evolved through the years, and even AKG's is all over the place in this regard. We will most definitely have to wait and see. I am so split on this topic for so many reasons. It is extremely hard to "choose the right side" on this topic. I also doubt the price will remain 100$ for this capsule.

What worries me the most is what i mentioned in my first post here. Many mic "manufacturers" will most definitely include this new capsule in their new models, and images of it will be all over the web. The quality will not be a concern for them as long as the capsule looks decent. Edge terminated k67 hasn't stopped them to market the mics as something they are not.

And then you will get companies as MP, or Kaiku, Haiku, Telefunken who will claim their version of this capsule has passed additional QC by their experts, and been sprinkled with fairy dust for extra stability and performance.

 

[Cappy]

What makes you think those companies you mentioned don’t do additional QC? Do you work for them? How do you know they don’t do frequency sweeps to weed out the capsules that don’t have the desired frequency response? They buy in large bulk at a lower cost so they can afford to reject. Unless you have first hand knowledge, you’re making assumptions.

 

[alloitsjosh]

If there is someone here who is truly unbiased (i do not mean that as a slight to any person here) and interested in taking some measurements for the benefit of the forum, I am willing to send one sample once I receive them, hopefully towards the end of next week. PM me.