Official 33609 builder's tread. See 1st page for updates.

[promixe]

Oh, one more thing...

The 1500pF poly caps are rated 100V in everyone's BOMs. Is there a way to use 50V versions of those? The reason I'm asking is Mouser has those 100V puppies for $3.90 each! But Digikey has the 50V version for only 63 cents - big difference!

Reference:

Mouser 100V - #505-FKP21500/100/1
Digikey 50V - #P3828-ND

 

[radiance]

[quote author="promixe"]Oh, one more thing...

The 1500pF poly caps are rated 100V in everyone's BOMs. Is there a way to use 50V versions of those? The reason I'm asking is Mouser has those 100V puppies for $3.90 each! But Digikey has the 50V version for only 63 cents - big difference!

Reference:

Mouser 100V - #505-FKP21500/100/1
Digikey 50V - #P3828-ND[/quote]

I guess so. The PSU for this project gives 24V and 0V right? No way the 1500pF cap is going to see more as 24V right?

 

[Linus]

Is a Willesden Transformer model EM 20015 equivalent to a Belclere TF 10015 for the interstage?

 

[Yellowguy]

[quote author="Linus"]Is a Willesden Transformer model EM 20015 equivalent to a Belclere TF 10015 for the interstage?[/quote]
Yes indeed.

/Marco

 

[promixe]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but:

There is a space for 120R resistor on the Elma LIM_THR board but the 120R is not in ANY of the BOMs I've seen in this thread. Even the original Igor's one. Yet many people have already built their units and didn't say anything.

Anyone cares to elaborate on this? =)

Thanks!

 

[Linus]

Could someone clarify which switch I want for this project??

I called Elma to order the switches. One BOM said 04-1100-20 and this post (below) said 04-1103-20. The person at Elma said those switches goes around and around with no stops. He suggested that I probably want 04-1130-20 which goes from position 1 thru 24 and back not around and around. 1130 is gold flashed silver contacts for around $38 a switch. 1133 was the same in solid gold contacts for $51 a switch.

Do I want the switches to go all the way around or go from position 1 - 24 and back?


[quote author="promixe"][quote author="Linus"]I don't know how to order the Elma switches. The BOM I'm using says to order 4 Elma 1x24 switches. The Elma website asks about shorting and I'm concerned I'll order the wrong thing.

Could someone give me a specific model number I should order?

Thanks[/quote]

#04-1103-20... They're getting pretty popular, so Elma ran out (I grabbed the last 5).. They probably will have them back in stock starting next week (that's what they told me back in August anyway. The only way to order is to call them direct.

I've made the current (September) BOM for US builders, but I'm gonna double-check it before I post. I got all the parts and the only way to see if everything fits is to build the damn thing =)[/quote]

 

[Tekay]

04-1130-20 is the right one!

 

[inputoutput]

Do I want the switches to go all the way around or go from position 1 - 24 and back?

You need a small stop-screw, which you can get from Elma or any of their distributors.

 

[Linus]

Even if I get the 04-1130-20 I need the small stop-screw? How many?

[quote author="inputoutput"]

Do I want the switches to go all the way around or go from position 1 - 24 and back?

You need a small stop-screw, which you can get from Elma or any of their distributors.[/quote]

 

[promixe]

Hi guys,

I'm testing my unit and the problem on BOTH channels is that the 0dBu input drops to -21.4dBu on the output once I switch bypass off. Both channels are acting the same. This is without Limiter or Compressor section IN. And with RV1 at its maximum. I'm using Carnhill 9046/9045/9056 traffos...

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thanks!

 

[Rob Flinn]

The Carnhill 9046/9045/9056 traffos definitely work, since I used them.

It sounds like maybe you have a similar problem to one I exerienced. Have you checked the test voltages on the diagram Igor provided against your unit. & have you definitely got the correct version of the BC214, it should be EBC, which is the BC214C not the BC214L. If by any chance you have used a BC214 with a different pin order then you will need to bend the leads round to get them in the right holes.

 

[promixe]

Rob,
Thanks for replying quickly. This is the BC214 I've used throughout the assembly - http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=UMEuL5FsraDuADj3oGJIsg== - looking at its datasheet it seems like this is the right one.

I've checked the voltages and most of them seem off. Like TR2 for instance - gives me 3.35V at the base (not 4.1V) and rapidly falling if I continue to measure, and 3.945V at the emitter (not 4.7V).

Also, I'm measuring 14.34V (vs 9.9V) at the TR15 collector.
TP_E gives me 0.6V (not 0V like on the schemo).
TR6 collector - 7.2V (vs 7V)
C8+ is 6.62V, not 6.4V
TR11 emitter - 1.63V, not 2.5V
TR7 emitter - 23.92V, not 23.7V
TR3, TR4 base - 17.4V (and 18.2V on the other channel), not 17V
TR3, TR4 collectors - 3.3V (vs 4V)...

The rest seems more or less close to the schematic.
I'm getting stable 260-265mV at R44 on both channels.

Ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Rob Flinn]

[quote author="promixe"]Rob,
I've checked the voltages and most of them seem off. Like TR2 for instance - gives me 3.35V at the base (not 4.1V) and rapidly falling if I continue to measure, and 3.945V at the emitter (not 4.7V).

Also, I'm measuring 14.34V (vs 9.9V) at the TR15 collector.
TP_E gives me 0.6V (not 0V like on the schemo).
TR6 collector - 7.2V (vs 7V)
C8+ is 6.62V, not 6.4V
TR11 emitter - 1.63V, not 2.5V
TR7 emitter - 23.92V, not 23.7V
TR3, TR4 base - 17.4V (and 18.2V on the other channel), not 17V
TR3, TR4 collectors - 3.3V (vs 4V)...[/quote]

Out of these most are in the ballpark enough, but TR15 coll & TP_E are suss. Possibly TR1 Emit. Also T2 are is not displaying the right sort of behaviour. check round these areas. You have got the control boards hooked up ??

 

[promixe]

Out of these most are in the ballpark enough, but TR15 coll & TP_E are suss. Possibly TR1 Emit. Also T2 are is not displaying the right sort of behaviour. check round these areas. You have got the control boards hooked up ??

I've tried it both ways, with and without control boards. One of the channels really freaks out without the control boards - TP_E goes to almost 8V and drops down gradually to about 0.3V over 5 minute period. Also the meter goes to far right and stays there forever. TR1 collector is at around 5-6V...

With control boards connected both channels seem to get 0.111V at TR1 collector instead of 0V like on the schematic. Also the collector on TR15 keeps slowly rising on both boards.

I'm really new to troubleshooting such complicated designs. I can keep measuring voltages around the whole board but it doesn't tell me much what I should be replacing/looking for etc... =) I'm not freaking out YET, but I'm surprised both boards are behaving pretty much identically.

Also, I've used a BC441 replacement - http://www.centralsemi.com/PDFs/products/2N5320-5323.PDF that was suggested earlier in this thread. If you look at the pinout view (2nd page) - is that the bottom view?

 

[Rob Flinn]

[quote author="promixe"]

I've tried it both ways, with and without control boards. One of the channels really freaks out without the control boards - TP_E goes to almost 8V and drops down gradually to about 0.3V over 5 minute period. Also the meter goes to far right and stays there forever. TR1 collector is at around 5-6V...[/quote]

You need to have the control boards connected or you will not read the right voltages & it will not work.

The problem above that you speak of I had on one of my channels. I'm sorry but I can't remember exactly what the problem was but I think I figured that what was happening was that the side chainwas switching hard on because the meter was slammed over to the right. I figured that the time constant capacitor did not have a path to discharge, which wa why the voltage drops really slowly. This is basically the release.

Ah ha now I think I remember. Check the release switches. Because the timing cap discharge through them. My problem was that I don't normally solder Lorlin switch positions that do nothing, because it makes them more difficult to remove, when they finally need replacing. I just solder enough to make the switch held mechanically well. On the relase for I think the compressor one of the traces runs to a pole on the front of the board, which I happened to have not connected. This leads me to believe that you have a problem with the release resistor part of the switch boards not being connected to the main board. i.e there is no release path. So check around that region.

With the transistors that you've used it may be worth actually checking that they aren't ebc when for example you need cbe. All you need to do is make sure that from the data sheet the correct pin connects to the parts ( maybe a resistor ) That it is on the diagram.


I hope this helps, I know how frustrating this can be so keep focused & don't let it get to you. I'm away for a week or two, so may have limited access to the net. If you ask some more questions don't think I'm ignoring you if I don't respond.

 

[wassx]

Hiho!

Just finished my 33609, but a strange problem occurs.

When i connect the limiter cable to the boards in the right way (?) pin 1 to pin 1 and so on, the meter jumps at startup to the max and rests there for ever.
Now the strange thing:
When i connect the cable the wrong way Pin1 to Pin8, Pin2 to Pin 7 and so on, the meter jumps to max and goes down after a second (seems the way it should be? but the channels wont work too)

When I try to send some signal through the unit, I can hear the signal but masked by strong humming noise (the same thing if I switch the comp in/out main, when the comp is in I can hear some radiostation too, changes on the front panel won't effect anything)

Sry, I have no measurements at the moment cause of the lack of the right equipment, but has anybody an idea what to check first please?
I checked the TR's, and I'm going through all the resistors now.

cheers
stef

 

[Igor]

Just check carefully everything...maybe something swaped or transistors
installed wrong way. Check all voltages.

 

[promixe]

Hey guys,
Still figuring out why my channels are dropping -24dB when bypass is OFF without compression/limiting engaged.

I've noticed that on the schematic R31 near TP_E is 560R and gives 0V at TP_E. However on the boards R31 is specified as 680R. My TP_E reading is 0.6V on both channels - has anyone corrected/commented on this R31 issue?

Igor, do my voltages (a couple of posts above) seem OK to you? I've tripple checked everything before soldering and both channels are acting the same. I know that kind of limits the "component malfunction" factor and brings in the "user error" factor. =)

ANY help is highly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[wassx]

Hi!

I "fixed" the switch problem. I thought the jumper "J" was for the 990 OP only. But I connected it and the meters went down.
(hope this was the thing and not a side effect of a greater error..,btw. sry I'm verrrry noob to such complex electronics)

Sound goes through without noise, about -23db without Bypass OUT and -3dB with Bypass IN. But no compression, switches doesn't take effect.
I made some measurements which confuses me:

Only power, bypass, frontpanel connected to the main board:
On INTR1 to pwr ground:
Pri+ 1,45V AC
Sec+ 13,8V AC

On nearly every TR is approx 14V AC (13,78 - 14,00), same to the rest of the components
When I connect the transformers too, approx. 61V appears instead of the 14V AC

I checked all resistor values, polarity of capacitors, diodes and TR's, 24,1V DC from the PSU. Tried without the TR9 and TR13.

Please, has anybody some ideas where to search next?


stef

 

[Igor]

On nearly every TR is approx 14V AC (13,78 - 14,00), same to the rest of the components
When I connect the transformers too, approx. 61V appears instead of the 14V AC

Looks a way strange. Check connections from power supply to motherboard and switch board.
Where did you measured 61 v ac?????
To previous posts.
People, all this seems just as wrong placed components or wiring mistakes. Just patience and time.
Take signal generator, scope, and voltmeter,
connect boards together, go slowly with voltages from
power supply to test points, put audio to input, then
check at every test point with scope.
BC441 replacement seems to be right one, emitter marked with
"key", base at the middle.