I couldn't afford an MM1000 so I had to build my own and they only reason I had a Neve was because DA audio needed me as a tech...couldn't afford to pay me...and traded me a very odd Neve console with no EQ to continue rebuilding V72 modules, of which he had a large room full of. Still have the console and the MM1200, which I could only afford cause people were discarding them at one point.
OSCAR - Open Source Console for Analogue Recording
- Thread starter pvision
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Getting back to the subject at hand that's near and dear to me, the basic building blocks for a Neve or API signal path are out there and well known with nice clone parts readily available.
Over the years I've had about half a dozen meetings with various small manufacturers about just such a product(modular 19" expandable console sections) but ultimately it has never been seen as viable.
The only thing to come of it is a nice passive summing device but those seemed to have fallen out of favor or maybe everyone that wants one owns one.
The approach CAPI has taken is the only one that make sense for a manufacturer in that everything used in the "kit" is something already used in other products they make...thus you don't have units sitting on shelves with the exception of the faceplates from what I can tell.
Even an open source console design requires someone to design boards, build prototypes, test and revise, source components and metal work etc etc.
That's work and most people need to get paid to do that.
I still get inquiries about building custom consoles and I have never seen one get past the basic planning and budget stage.
Oh and Ian has already done it and quite well I might add(I refer to his designs when clients ask about such projects) so all one has to do is to look his site and documents maybe download a Neve manual and go for it.
It's not hard to add up the cost per input channel in high quality parts alone...the conversation about such endeavors typically ends there but if some needs a working buss assignment pcb with illumination I have everything from a 16 CH to 4 CH assignment module already designed as well as center section cards etc.
I'm not about to upload the gerbers but I have sold the boards in the past.
If someone else wants to get the ball rolling on the design of an OSCAR I would certainly love to go over the designs and add whatever I can.
I use KiCad these days btw. That would make it accessible to anyone.
Over the years I've had about half a dozen meetings with various small manufacturers about just such a product(modular 19" expandable console sections) but ultimately it has never been seen as viable.
The only thing to come of it is a nice passive summing device but those seemed to have fallen out of favor or maybe everyone that wants one owns one.
The approach CAPI has taken is the only one that make sense for a manufacturer in that everything used in the "kit" is something already used in other products they make...thus you don't have units sitting on shelves with the exception of the faceplates from what I can tell.
Even an open source console design requires someone to design boards, build prototypes, test and revise, source components and metal work etc etc.
That's work and most people need to get paid to do that.
I still get inquiries about building custom consoles and I have never seen one get past the basic planning and budget stage.
Oh and Ian has already done it and quite well I might add(I refer to his designs when clients ask about such projects) so all one has to do is to look his site and documents maybe download a Neve manual and go for it.
It's not hard to add up the cost per input channel in high quality parts alone...the conversation about such endeavors typically ends there but if some needs a working buss assignment pcb with illumination I have everything from a 16 CH to 4 CH assignment module already designed as well as center section cards etc.
I'm not about to upload the gerbers but I have sold the boards in the past.
If someone else wants to get the ball rolling on the design of an OSCAR I would certainly love to go over the designs and add whatever I can.
I use KiCad these days btw. That would make it accessible to anyone.
john12ax7
Well-known member
Using pre-existing standards is good whenever possible. The question we've had for years is what is the ideal size of the fundamental building block. 1.5x5.25" like 500 series? That opens up lots of module options, but edac connector is too limiting for advanced routing. And 1.5" can be too narrow for some applications.
In the early 80's, it made sense to DIY a mixer, at least her in Europe. The most affordable decent mixer was the MacInnes (16x4), which cost the same as a Peugeot 504.
That was just before Tascam and Soundcraft introduced significantly cheaper models.
It's already been done. Schlumberger modules for example.
There was even a company that advertized their aluminium alloy cast frames in Studio Sound.
The main motivation for DIY'ing a console is to have it fully custom. Since anyone's dream console is different than anyone else, it's hard to find a common ground.
I killed a bunch of brain cells back in the 70/80s thinking about architecture and topologies for use in a custom kit mixer/console.
One obvious problem is interfacing between a mix of circuit blocks. To facilitate mixing and matching sundry different circuit blocks, a safe approach would use buffered low impedance outputs and differential high impedance inputs everywhere. This adds components and PS drain that isn't necessary inside dedicated mixers/consoles.
JR
A friend some month ago was at a synth diyrs meeting with also little expo of parts about,
and told me that many were talking about the need of a decent quality rack mount analog mixer
at a free bankruptcy price,
with A-B double inputs on each ch (16x2) like the features of the inline concept,
an enough enhanced eq section and 4+2 switchable (3-4/5-6) aux sends,
all controls by pots-double pots and switches,
or small faders only for the lower input row A .... even if not essential,
to place in the middle of their self-built synths rigs taking a limited 19" rack space like 5-6 units,
thus also having the possibility to insert above and below of it a number of fxs outboards
like reverb, delay, comp-lim, etc.. ,
and to use it also as analog summ , at old school way,
thus being able to control everything located at arm length in a radius of 360° ,
a mic input section on the channels seems not essential,
as all synths, drum machines, etc.. sources are line type,
thus leaving space for more useful ch insert points activable with on-off switch,
and if required an external (adj quality/level) mic pre unit would be preferred,
as it can be integrated on the rig by connecting it with its line out to the mixer or ADA,
given its size this unit would not require expensive large metal chassis, articulated routings, etc...
for the diyrs it could be available as assembly kit, like was for the Korg MS20,
perhaps with the pcb already complete of the components and tested,
even if the feeling is that it would take too much support time,
so perhaps the best thing would be a unit ready to power on and use,
that a certain amount of people, not only synth diyrs,
also a part of DAW fans would like to have a smart analog mix section for various needs,
seem to be looking for.
and told me that many were talking about the need of a decent quality rack mount analog mixer
at a free bankruptcy price,
with A-B double inputs on each ch (16x2) like the features of the inline concept,
an enough enhanced eq section and 4+2 switchable (3-4/5-6) aux sends,
all controls by pots-double pots and switches,
or small faders only for the lower input row A .... even if not essential,
to place in the middle of their self-built synths rigs taking a limited 19" rack space like 5-6 units,
thus also having the possibility to insert above and below of it a number of fxs outboards
like reverb, delay, comp-lim, etc.. ,
and to use it also as analog summ , at old school way,
thus being able to control everything located at arm length in a radius of 360° ,
a mic input section on the channels seems not essential,
as all synths, drum machines, etc.. sources are line type,
thus leaving space for more useful ch insert points activable with on-off switch,
and if required an external (adj quality/level) mic pre unit would be preferred,
as it can be integrated on the rig by connecting it with its line out to the mixer or ADA,
given its size this unit would not require expensive large metal chassis, articulated routings, etc...
for the diyrs it could be available as assembly kit, like was for the Korg MS20,
perhaps with the pcb already complete of the components and tested,
even if the feeling is that it would take too much support time,
so perhaps the best thing would be a unit ready to power on and use,
that a certain amount of people, not only synth diyrs,
also a part of DAW fans would like to have a smart analog mix section for various needs,
seem to be looking for.
Last edited:
snakecained2
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 17
Many moons ago I tried to get a large manufacturer to do a modern modular. Got close but still so,so expensive. That is why there are off the shelf options these days rather than fully build from scratch.
Yes there are a few boutique options about for those who wish, and a few can DIY something relatively simple.
Yes there are a few boutique options about for those who wish, and a few can DIY something relatively simple.
ruffrecords
Well-known member
There seems to be some hard to achieve requirements here. 16x2 inputs, enhance EQ section plus 4+2 UAX sends in 5-6 units of width (assuming a width is 8HP that is less than 50HP wide) an the standard 5 1/4 inch high module.. Not to mention the fact that syths have all the inputs and output on the front panel as well
Cheers
Ian
Hi Ian,
looking around the web i found a Mackie rack mount mixer
it is the LM3204 here a tech review about
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/mackie-lm3204
the dimensions are 5 rack Units (22,5 cm) check attached
but if 6 U (27 cm) as well would not be excessive,
as the dimensions of a 1604Vlz4 are from 32 cm with connectors panel folded,
to 43,3 cm if panel is flat,
unfortunately it is not inline,
as the old discontinued Alesis Studio 32 rack mount/desktop mixer,
about connectors the DB25 could be the option,
but why not 1/4 inch Trs as Mackie used for the LM3204 on back side
and with additional space available for more options like ch insert,
decent quality double pots on aux sends, eq, ch volume and pan-pot
would allow the features indicated at the above post,
Sifam have good knobs suitable for the purpose,
ike 11 mm for upper pot and 15 mm for lower.
cheers.
Attachments
Rack mount mixers are a mature product category (I used to manage Peavey's mixer engineering group). Perhaps do a search of what's in the market new or used.
JR
JR
ruffrecords
Well-known member
AH, you mean 5U tall, I thought you were talking about it being 5 synth modules wide.
In fact the Mackie is a full 17.5 inches wide and it is a stand alone unit not designed to fit in a regular syth rack - it has its connectors at the rear, only 4 AUXes and a very basic 3 band EQ. All of those differences make it possible.
heers
Ian
john12ax7
Well-known member
That's a big part of the issue, quality signal paths are expensive. Just consider what 32 quality EQs would cost. And then everything else. Not sure there is enough of a market.
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Maybe I missed something along the way but I thought this was a DIY project. It is not going to be on general sale.
Cheers
Ian
john12ax7
Well-known member
I was looking at it more as a community project where various people would offer various parts and kits and then you pick and choose and build what you want.
ruffrecords
Well-known member
That sound like it could be fun.
EDit: I am not sure about kits though. That is a lot of work. I can understand people being interested in supplying bespoke parts like front panels and PCBs but not complete kits with all the electronic components. Surely the DIYer can do that?
Cheers
Ian
PermO
Well-known member
Kits 
"I want you to do 95% of the work for me so I can do the last 5% that is actually fun to do, but I don't want to pay more than the sum off the parts, so could you do that for me please ? .. for free ?"
Kids
"I want you to do 95% of the work for me so I can do the last 5% that is actually fun to do, but I don't want to pay more than the sum off the parts, so could you do that for me please ? .. for free ?"
Kids
john12ax7
Well-known member
I agree, was using the term kits loosely. The main objective originally was to have something modular with an agreed upon infrastructure. Like 500 series but expanded. So you need a standardized physical size and agreed upon connector and pinout that can handle the needed mixer functions, power, i/o, auxes, maybe digital conttol, etc.
Ar that point people could diy whatever they want for their own needs. But I'm sure some kits would start popping up as people try to fit some classic circuits into the new format.
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