Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2021, 12:13:33 PM »
Living Sounds,

I didn't read your whole post because I don't have time right now.  But telling someone (or a group) who you feel is acting like a two year old, that they're acting like a two year old is not going to work.  It hasn't worked, and never will work.

They play by different rules.  It only fuels their fire of division.

Calling someone a cry baby is not civil.  Left media has poked and joked about this too much as far as I'm concerned.  It's too easy to target by the DT team.

Time for plan B, and H.

If people have said they're bothered by the political 'discussions' here then that has merit.  I've seen plenty of disinformation and misinformation spread.. and going back and forth about it, isn't really doing much to help. 

-A


volker

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2021, 12:41:40 PM »
I don't get it either. In my mind, given the circumstances, we are having civil discussions here.
I agree, this is about as civil as it can possibly be here, considering completely opposing views are having arguments. There is no name calling, the notion that the discussion partner could be an ignorant fool is mostly only implied ;D. So I don't really see in what way you could actually want the forum to be different. This is a lot nicer and more productive than many discussions I encounter in real life. Personally I quite like it the way it is, getting to know the views from a wide range of people.

I also don't understand how any of this can have an actual impact on your mood. It's just random people hacking their thoughts into their keyboards, influenced by whether the sun is shining, what they had for breakfast, or whether that ebay shipment finally turned up, who by chance ended up on the same server, trying to make sense of what they experience. There is no point in being too attached to what somebody else halfway around the globe thinks about certain topics. And no single person is going to "fix" how people from all sorts of political, social and national backgrounds interact, and you certainly can't rely on them to satisfy your need for harmony in all things. There are rules on this forum and they are being upheld, if you feel there is a need for change I would suggest start there.

living sounds

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2021, 12:53:53 PM »
Conservatives, at least "Value Conservatives", tradionally are all about impulse control, self-moderation, discipline, delayed gratification, incrimental changes vs revolutions etc.

What we are dealing with, Trumpism, the insurrection, the anti-institutionalism and anti-intellectualism, is not Conservatism. It is Fascism.

I think this needs to be repeated, over and over. Some people can, do and will realize that they have been led away from their path.

And yes, this is very much a one-sided problem.

I also do not understand how one can take our forum discussion serious to the point of having to leave. I don't even get that in real life. I still am friends with my conspiracy minded friends (though none of them are Neo-Nazis, which I hope none of our members here are).

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2021, 01:10:01 PM »
How do you propose handling the situation of DT supporters that are considered by many who know them to be very fine people, who know right from wrong?  I just saw a Democrat say that on TV - as many of his constituents voted for DT.   He's not wrong about them, from a certain perspective.  He's also not right, because clearly (in my opinion at least) they bought into the disinformation and misinformation and couldn't see past the lies.  Maybe they didn't like the way the media has poked fun and kept this all front and center.  Maybe they got tired of Internet fights that they didn't realized were stemming from the divider in chief, DT and team.

Anyway...
Have at her fellas.

I have a record to finish up writing and producing, and don't want to continue pushing my thoughts. 

ps. No name calling here heh?  Weren't we just called crybabies for admitting this kind of thing affects us emotionally?  I thought you were fired up because of the same issues that are bothering you so much you feel the need to vent about it on the Internet. ; )

Later.

rob_gould

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2021, 02:02:23 PM »
ps. No name calling here heh?  Weren't we just called crybabies for admitting this kind of thing affects us emotionally?

Have another look at his post. 
Studio furniture, modular synth cases and more...

www.gouldcaseworks.nl

squarewave

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2021, 03:15:45 PM »
ps. No name calling here heh?  Weren't we just called crybabies for admitting this kind of thing affects us emotionally?
I called the people who declared "I'm out" to be cry-babies which is pretty much the opposite of what you characterize. And not only that but you were one of the people who said "I'm out too" so in effect I was telling people, including you, not to leave over something so stupid.

So you say "I'm out" and yet you're back so soon. You just have to have that femtolitre of endorphins to get a reaction out of someone.

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2021, 03:58:43 PM »
I called the people who declared "I'm out" to be cry-babies which is pretty much the opposite of what you characterize. And not only that but you were one of the people who said "I'm out too" so in effect I was telling people, including you, not to leave over something so stupid.

So you say "I'm out" and yet you're back so soon. You just have to have that femtolitre of endorphins to get a reaction out of someone.

Thanks man.  I appreciate it.

living sounds


scott2000

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2021, 08:24:18 PM »
Holy moly...lol

I just looked back to 2008 and read the same kind of stuff more or less.....kinda the same people too....freaky....

Pretty cool reading stuff from Larrchild and bcarso....

Larrchild posted this...Thought it was  interesting .. Guess some things change and some things not as much...

https://web.archive.org/web/20081023194134/http://www.salon.com/opinion/keillor/2008/10/22/abilene/

crazydoc

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #89 on: January 10, 2021, 08:58:09 PM »
I don't get it either. In my mind, given the circumstances, we are having civil discussions here.

This was shared to one of my favourite political blogs. It puts things into a perspective I share:

https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2021/Pres/Maps/Jan10.html
Great site and great read - thanks.

From the same place, which expresses my own thoughts:

Having tried to reason with my relatives for years, I can tell you there is no better option than to cut off that which is gangrene—for me and my family, that means hard boundaries about our relationship. There is a right and wrong. There is no reasoning to be had with those who live in a twisted despot universe, so I only speak with them when I can wish them happy birthday, merry Christmas, or check in on their health and well being. For Trump and his enablers and partners, the boundaries need to be clearly drawn as well—only stricter and more severe; there must be swift expulsion and denouncement of Trump and his enablers/partners. No amount of "lessons to learn" will change their course—there must be a line by which they can no longer cross. And we have reached the point whereby they must be permanently removed.

I can put up with morons - even morons who insist they're right when wrong. But I can't put up with morons whose unfounded beliefs do irreparable damage to the whole of society, as the pandemic deniers and stolen electioners do - I have only contempt for them. I can't have any dealings with them unless it's purely mechanical, as the post office clerk who won't wear a mask because she's a free  'Murican.
Luckily, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The secret of happiness is having low expectations.


iturnknobs

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2021, 03:44:27 PM »
I've also been pushing for the political discussion to be banned.
I'm not opposed. Just one more place the right-wing conspiracy theorists CANNOT push their agenda.
Election 2020.  For the people, not the money.

Matador

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2021, 09:48:37 PM »
Internet politics...A strange game.  The only winning move is not to play.  ;D
If you are tired of arguing with people on the internet, invest your time in making sure you get more voters you agree with out to the polls than the person you are arguing with.  It's a strategy that works every time.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 09:54:38 PM by Matador »

boji

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2021, 01:36:10 AM »
Quote
Just one more place the right-wing conspiracy theorists CANNOT push their agenda.

I'm almost certain the exact opposite effect is occurring, at least around here. Besides, can't know the attitude or actions of a person once they've been run out of a public space. To presume they will show up elsewhere less polarized, or less against an agenda makes no sense.

We used to use the brewery for pulling each other up, checking-in during bad storms, sharing oddball ideas and things we run across. Interests and mutual appreciations. In the Brewery we used to argue about philosophy, religion, lawn mowing and tree pruning techniques. But now it's all mouse traps and stiff-necked political posts. Worse, people presume to know who other people are because they happen to argue for a side. The vibe is anti-openness, anti-experimentation. Can't make any mistakes of thought around here anymore! This is the new brewery, and a handful of people are directly responsible for it.

We could change it for the better if we wanted it to have a future. People could start asking questions like it was more important to be good than right.

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #93 on: January 12, 2021, 08:35:56 AM »
You guys, I'm gonna admit something.  I spent the past three days putting my heart and soul into my posts here on this forum, a place I don't spent much time anymore.  It exhausted me to the point where I couldn't use my energy for hardly anything else.  That's not because I can't take an argument or I'm some kind of wimp, it's because my care and frustration meter over all this stuff is too high. 

I've got to rein my passion in, for this situation, as I do not fit the mold of the person who can engage in Internet political discussion and pretend things are normal.  I don't want to see another post about DT and gang to be honest.  And I'm afraid I'll end up contradicting myself and bashing on someone I care about, which is you all really.

For that reason, and that reason alone, I bid the forum a good bye.  Hopefully I've encouraged all those cats who stick around to have a little more patience and understanding.  It's hard for me to do and to stick around and have to constantly suppress what I'm feeling in order to play nice, and that would be a little too hard for me right now.

I guess I'm just human after all.  I did learn from these exchanges and I'm grateful for that.  Hopefully nobody got their feelings hurt in the process.

Take care.

Adam

hodad

Re: I'm Out... (changed)
« Reply #94 on: January 12, 2021, 11:34:40 AM »
One would hope that when something like Wednesday happens, that the scales would start to fall from the eyes of at least some Trump supporters--both those in Washington and the ones all around the country.  One would hope that, rather than pumping out rumors and complete falsehoods, conservative news outlets would reflect on the actual events of the day and what brought us (and particularly the Republican party) to this moment.  One would like to think that Republican legislators, after having to hole up in rooms as a crazed Republican mob, ginned up by the leader of their own party, tried to gain access, would see that now is the time to retreat from the brink to which Trump has pushed their party.  One would like to think that there'd be more Republicans with intelligence and insight who had enough courage to say out loud that it's time for Trump to give it a rest and go gently into that good night (yes, there are a few, but still...) instead of attacking the Trump-appointed justices, a batch chosen precisely for their unflinching conservatism, for showing more respect for the law than fealty to Trump. 

But I don't expect any of that.  What I see instead is a party that's split between crazy true believers, and a less crazy wing that at least partially recognizes the problem, but its members are either too craven to stand up to the crazies and to admit their role in creating the problem, or they're simply unwilling to let go of this mob, no matter how unruly and insane, because of the power they bring to the party. 

Trump knows how to exploit a wing of the party that has devolved from Tea-Party wacky to QAnon crazy.  He's played them like a cheap violin, and saner Republicans have gone along because of the power it brings them as they pursue their own agendas.  And if I could be allowed one stereotype, Republicans as a class are almost incapable of admitting they're wrong.  And party discipline has a tendency to push out those who entertain self-doubt, or who might occasionally concede that the other guys might have a point (see Jim Jeffords and Arlen Specter, as well as all the Republicans who were primaried from the right because they weren't "loyal" enough).  So, yeah, I don't ever really expect Republicans to acknowledge error. 

**You know, I get bothsidesism and whataboutism.  It's nice to say, "But the other guy does it too!"  Pointing out hypocrisy can actually be helpful at times if parties are willing to learn and grow.  But using bothsidesism to avoid culpability for something as significant as what happened Wednesday is weak and cowardly.  That was clearly a Republican mess on display, something that was years in the making, and it's time for Republicans to stand up, take responsibility, and start cleaning up their own house.  They've pushed American govt. to the brink of fascism; many of them realize this, and it's time to admit mistakes and start picking up the broken dishes and putting the furniture back in place. 


I'm typing this more in sorrow than in anger--I'll probably bow out for a while too--at this point the folks still supporting the Trump disaster won't be changed by me or anyone else they see as opposing them--they'll only change through growing awareness/self-awarenes from themselves and other likeminded folks.  In the end, Democrats  or liberals can't fix what's wrong with the Republican party (aside from voting them out of office); that falls squarely on Republicans.


 

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