GroupdDIY 511 Racks: round 5.5 available

[pacemaker]

yeah i was thinking the same,
800$ for an API 500 vpr with power supply is cheaper than a 51X ,
did we missed something ?

 

[JBVries]

Could this truly be one of those times where they say "The journey is half the reward?" 

 

[sahib]

yeah i was thinking the same,
800$ for an API 500 vpr with power supply is cheaper than a 51X ,
did we missed something ?

Yes you did.

It is 10 slots with a triple on board psu. It also does not have + - 24V operation.

It is utterly wrong to compare this to API. And considering the quantities involved the price we came up with is reasonable.

Yes the cost of power supply worked out expensive. However, I have broken down the  cost of components and it is all there. RS prices are expensive but I am sure you can get it 1/3 cheaper if you shopped around. But I am not going to shop around for you as my time as as valuable as yours.

Also you can do the machining for yourselves too and I showed how the mechanics worked.

 

[briomusic]

having purchased and built two 51x racks + psus I would agree with sahib.

the psu is expensive, because it is essentially two psu's, twice what the API and BAE's do.

I think the rack itself is still an incredible bargain, for people that do not require +-24 Volt (and anyone considering buying API instead would have to be in this group), it is maybe a good idea to buy a psu from the above companies and adapt the power connector accordingly. or diy a slimmed down version with a stock +-16V transformer.

for me personally, this is a long term investment, already bearing fruits by housing two lovely PP-EQNs which I could not run in a different rack at 24 Volt. This is barely months after the 51x rack came out, and only the beginning. In fact I am going to hold on to my currently empty API 6B, as I feel I will have the alliance rack filled up with 51x modules by the end of the year....and will have to put the standard 500 modules back into the old rack!

 

[[silent:arts]]

I think the rack itself is still an incredible bargain, for people that do not require +-24 Volt (and anyone considering buying API instead would have to be in this group), it is maybe a good idea to buy a psu from the above companies and adapt the power connector accordingly. or diy a slimmed down version with a stock +-16V transformer.

the rack and the backplane are fully API compatible.
stuffing only 15 pin card edge connectors (we have them in stock), using the 5 pin XLR for the PSU (we have them in stock) no need to adapt anything. just use any API compatible PSU.

 

[sahib]

Just to extend on Brio's comments. Also note that I am not having a go at Pacemaker.

I bet API's power supply will not supply the power requirements that the type of diy modules offered in this forum demand, not even for 10 modules. Our psu is  way more than double what is on API. The transformer we offer has 2.2A on each rail and we are only using only half of it. With a good housekeeping and additional psu board you can run two racks out of one case. That is a great advantage.

The other points you should consider is our selection of components. I design products for a living and I know how to make it cheap but this is not the place for cheap stuff. API probably has a mains switch that costs 75p one-off. The switch I used is almost £6.  Front facia is the same. It is a laser etched metal finish sheet material. We can replace that with cheap silk screen and save almost £15. But we don't. Not only because it is a quality stuff, but it also looks cool.

We should be careful with our expectations from the notion of diy. It doesn't mean that it has to be cheap. The notion is that we have something that others don't and that may cost more.

Anyhow, as I mentioned in  my previous post I have remembered that I had these heatsinks which I removed from unused Avalon power amplifiers. The story of the amps is that a PA system was installed but there was a glitch which triggered the fire alarm. They could not get rid of the glitch and they de-commissioned it.  I bought the system, took it apart and shelved the components. So the hetasinks are effectively unused, totally brand new. They have much larger surface area then the ones I used on the first prototype and much more efficient. The picture is attached. I have about 100 of them. Although I initially said they were single TO3, I will accommodate two TO220 on each one which gives us about 50 power supplies. I will supply these at a greatly reduced price which will almost halve the heatsink cost. I have ordered the new 25A in line bridge rectifiers and I am putting another psu together to test with my new heatsink. Don't panick this will not be as long as the previous one. I'll just do a simple bench test to work out the mechanics of it. In terms of performance it will be as good as the previous one if not better.

 

[jsteiger]

Yes, it is expensive but like everyone is saying, there is nothing like it anywhere. It is not fair to try and compare it to any of the regular 500 series PSU units out there. Besides the extra 24V rails, the case is custom (and very sharp!), the toroidal transformers are custom and the heat sinks are massive and custom. Heck, there is a noticeable cost difference just between all of the 5-pin connectors and the 7-pin connectors. I can vouch for the cost of the mains switch that API uses on their supplies. I replaced an identical one on the wife's vacuum that cost less than a $1 from Mouser.

Back maybe 15 years ago or more, I had a pair of Brent 11-spacers with a single rack mount PSU that powered both. I don't recall if it was a 2 or 3 amp supply. They don't sell those anymore. This was before the official "VPR Alliance" specs came out. I can guarantee you Brent was not allowing for 130mA per module. Anyhow, my point is, they were just buying stock Power-One linear supplies and butting them in a box.

That is an option to for anyone who doesn't want to build one up from scratch. They are very inexpensive. Just look at Mouser and Digi-key.

Cheers, Jeff

 

[funkymonksf]

I don't doubt that it's totally worth. That's why I'm going to do my best to come up with the funds to do it. (i work at a coffee shop). I figure it can be done if I order the kit without the case. So in regards to that. Is it just the case or are there any other pieces that I should be aware of if I am doing my own case? Also does anyone have a ballpark figure for the rack pricing? (I know it's still in the works, it's just the PSU was a surprise and I'd love to have idea of what to save for) Thanks again all you guys! Incredible work!

-Brice Conrad

 

[ledogboy]

Hey guys-
Just to be clear, my post wasn't a complaint about the cost of going this route.  When this whole thing first started there seemed to be a feeling that 500 series racks were a bit of a ripoff, being that they were, essentially, a backplane, some metal work, and a PSU.  So, I think it's interesting to note that the prices of going this "deluxe psu" route end up being rather similar to commercial offerings (while offering more features/flexibility).  And this is with what I presume is a very slim profit margin (if any!).  The actual value of commercial 500 series racks may be greater than what the perceived value was..

Anyways, enough about moolah, I can't wait to get my rack built and fill the thing!

 

[Ptownkid]

Ptownkid is also supplying components for the power supply and his prices are very competitive, particularly for US and Canada guys. However, I do not think he has all the components that I have in my list and please direct your questions to him.        

The components may differ slightly by brand etc...but the kits I have actually contain more than what's in your electronics parts package. I included EVERYTHING on Volkers PSU bill of materials. The kits did have LM317's but I am switching them out for LM350's as we speak.

Cheers

PS, this part number seems to be for a two way connector... RS 101-5384

 

[sahib]

Also my post that contains the break down of the cost should be read carefully.  I made it clear what is necessary and what is not.

Transformer mounting plate is not necessary, but a good design practice. Normally the head of the bolt that secures the transformer sticks out under the case as there is no indentation on the bottom plate. Hence I offered the plate so that it mounts onto the case with 4 x M3 countersink screw, then the transformer mounts onto it. If you are happy with the head of the bolt sticking out then you already saved considerable amount of money.

Use a switch that costs only 75P, in fact you can get ones for 50p. Same goes for the fuse holders.

I proposed proper cable management by using stand-offs and cable clips. Just leave cables dangling about inside the case, that will save you few pounds.

For mains connection solder the wires onto the switch, IEC and fuse. It will save you over a pound.

Don't use rubber covers over the IEC and Fuse it will save you over a pound.

In fact don't use IEC, have a cable going straight into the case using a grommet. That will save you almost five pounds.

Don't use our heatsink arrangement. Instead mount the regulators onto a heatsink vertically. It will save you over fifteen pounds..

Don't use our case, instead have a blank front panel with the (cheap) switch and fuse holders. It will not be as cool as our case but it will be perfectly functional.

 

[JBVries]

How do we get a hold of Jeff? I''ve sent him a PM and an e-mail 2 days ago. Please forgive me if I'm just being impatient but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and potentially the stock on these parts.

 

[sahib]

I think he has been very busy these days. Don't worry he'll reply.

 

[Dubka]

Cemal - emailed you a couple of days ago.
Any idea when the rack kits will be available?
Cheers,
Martin

 

[[silent:arts]]

Cemal - emailed you a couple of days ago.
Any idea when the rack kits will be available?

once we know this date we will take orders

 

[Dubka]

Well yes, I imagined that might well be the case. 

I was looking for a rough estimate...

Not sure I'm strong enough to have a completed psu just sitting, gathering dust.
It was bad enough when I had an empty lunchbox...  :-\

 

[sahib]

Hi Martin,

I have collected the first batch of twenty 511  cases. The way the distribution is going to be that ten will go to Volker and Jeff and I will take 5 each. I also have two 511 left over from the first batch. I'll need to see my waiting list but I am sure you will be served.

For the remaining eighty 511s I have not been able to talk to my contact on Friday but I'll do on Monday and press on with at least 40 to be completed by the end of next week.

However on 511 case there will be a slight price increase due to Neutrik connectors. I am not sure if there has been a price increase on the edge connectors but the metal work is o.k. However, we are talking about an insignificant rise here.

In terms of power supply we are ready too. However few indians raised concern over the cost and I felt I have to do something about it. I actually have orders and people were about to pay but I told them to hold on for a few days until I sort out the new heatsink arrangement, which will save you all significant amount. I may also be able to lower the price on the transformer holding plate. Therefore please bear with me over this weekend and I will amend my previous post with the new prices. I will also notify those including you who are in my waiting list by e-mail.

 

[delaymix]

Not to dwell comparative agreement. Certainly things are not exactly alike. But the reality is what it is. And this is a really expensive product. I've been thinking a lot about this project and my conclusion is that somehow has gotten out of hand. For a DIYer should not be priced as expensive or even more than a series system from any manufacturer API, BAE, etc ... And I can not use someone I argue that the pleasure of building worth more than that. I can understand but to some extent. Many DIYers like myself, we welcome building equipment for our work, but obviously trying to save a little money in this process. It is true that RS is expensive and can lower the price a bit, looking good in other providers. But the figures of the cost of supply chassis 51X that vds. I seem to have arisen simply astronomical and unaffordable viewed at any point of view.

 

[zayance]

In terms of power supply we are ready too. However few indians raised concern over the cost and I felt I have to do something about it. I actually have orders and people were about to pay but I told them to hold on for a few days until I sort out the new heatsink arrangement, which will save you all significant amount. I may also be able to lower the price on the transformer holding plate. Therefore please bear with me over this weekend and I will amend my previous post with the new prices

Total respect. You guys are great on this Forum really!

 

[[silent:arts]]

Not to dwell comparative agreement. Certainly things are not exactly alike. But the reality is what it is. And this is a really expensive product. I've been thinking a lot about this project and my conclusion is that somehow has gotten out of hand. For a DIYer should not be priced as expensive or even more than a series system from any manufacturer API, BAE, etc ... And I can not use someone I argue that the pleasure of building worth more than that. I can understand but to some extent. Many DIYers like myself, we welcome building equipment for our work, but obviously trying to save a little money in this process. It is true that RS is expensive and can lower the price a bit, looking good in other providers. But the figures of the cost of supply chassis 51X that vds. I seem to have arisen simply astronomical and unaffordable viewed at any point of view.

there is always an option:
if you don't like it don't buy it