Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone

[kingkorg]

Sadly, you can't trademark the sound.

 

[Dylan W]

Nope, it isn't actually even close. Soliloqueen's exploration of some images revealed quite different hole dimensions. Going just by measurements i haven't been able to nail the graph 100% using existing capsules. Some are closer than others, but original k67 is far from the expected curve. Fox audio came to the same conclusion.

The capsules are somewhat different sounding.

Just today I was going back and forth between the 800g and an 87 with the innertube, tube 87 mod (so basically a 67 capsule with little to no roll off in the amplifier).

They are similar, but the Neumann has that signature midrange bite/cut/authority, while the Sony has a bit less from 800 to 2k give or take, and more going on from 9k up.

I would expect the Neumann capsule in the Sony to sound noticeably different.

I'll try to post a comparison shortly. Long story short, both are a polished sound and really jump right to the front of the mix. For belters, the Sony could soften their (potentially harsh) midrange, while the Neumann has that classic bite that brings interest and intimacy to a dull'ish voice.

I stand corrected. Well.... how do we get soliloqueen a sony capsule to replicate?

 

[soliloqueen]

I stand corrected. Well.... how do we get soliloqueen a sony capsule to replicate?

When business kicks back up, I can probably find one. I don't need someone to send me one. If someone did, they'd need to be OK with it being destroyed, or maybe reskinned.

 

[vintagelove]

I stand corrected. Well.... how do we get soliloqueen a sony capsule to replicate?

Honestly, if I had a genuine Neumann capsule in there, I would leave it. Yes it might be different from a stock Sony, but the Neumann capsule has that classic mid bite/authority that can be preferable on some voices.

Unless that is he's running into an issue with harshness/hardness on midrange forward, powerful singers. The voicing of the Sony is very flattering for that.

 

[Drosselmeier]

https://www.avito.ru/moskva/audio_i_video/sony_c800_studiynyy_mikrofon_replika_1933432248#extended

https://www.avito.ru/moskva/muzykal...diynyy_mikrofon_u67_62666760?slocation=639180
AEG smart PSU?

 

[vmanj]

I understand that this should not be done, but if in the c800 circuit the anode voltage is reduced to 120V.

Do I need to change the tube bias?

 

[LuckyNat]

i would love to take a c800g capsule apart, i'm sure i could nail it

Why bother, there's no need! They're apparently *exactly the same* as those in the Sony C48 .. according to those who repair them.

 

[cortez07]

Electronaut Co "CHILL800G" Mic Pre ( World's First Sony C800G Mic Pre)

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https://www.instagram.com/p/CvyKW_WO...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwDgmYPu...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

[k brown]

Electronaut Co "CHILL800G" Mic Pre ( World's First Sony C800G Mic Pre)

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https://www.instagram.com/p/CvyKW_WO...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

https://www.instagram.com/p/CwDgmYPu...c4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Doesn't it just need any pre with lower gain . . ?

 

[Ricardus]

Well that's it. I'm out. I'm never buying a Sony C800G, selling all my stuff, and quitting the business if I can't use my API, Neve, SSL, and assorted other preamps with that mic. Life just isn't worth living at this point.

Oh, but I do have a question:

If having a special preamp was a requirement for that mic to sound "good" why didn't Sony make one for it (or anyone else, before this?)? Why is this "the world's first C800G mic preamp"?

 

[k brown]

Well that's it. I'm out. I'm never buying a Sony C800G, selling all my stuff, and quitting the business if I can't use my API, Neve, SSL, and assorted other preamps with that mic. Life just isn't worth living at this point.

Oh, but I do have a question:

If having a special preamp was a requirement for that mic to sound "good" why didn't Sony make one for it (or anyone else, before this?)? Why is this "the world's first C800G mic preamp"?

Yeah, but cherry tree . . .

 

[vintagelove]

Doesn't it just need any pre with lower gain . . ?

I wasn't struck with it being an especially high output mic. The innertube, tube87 puts out a lot more signal (Side by side with the same pre)

 

[k brown]

I wasn't struck with it being an especially high output mic. The innertube, tube87 puts out a lot more signal (Side by side with the same pre)

Up next: "the world's first U87 mic preamp"!

 

[Barry Hufker]

What is odd as well, is that the C800 mic preamp is only "in the distortion/noise sweet spot" when the mic is at a given distance from the sound source. Closer, you change the gain, further, you change the gain. The philosophy behind this preamp doesn't make any sense. Although... in a certain section of the public there is probably money to be made with bespoke preamps for each microphone model...

Microphones are already Pokemon, no reason mic preamps can't be too...

 

[Dylan W]

This looks like a commissioned piece for a particular client’s needs, I doubt it’s claiming to be more than that. Rob Roy @ Electronaut is a talented designer btw. The big differentiator seems to be 3.3k input impedance (rather than 1.5k typical), because apparently Sony specs the C800G as sounding best into a 3k+ load. Not sure how much of a difference it actually makes in practice.

AFAIK most people using the C800G for pop/hip-hop are running it with either a 1073 or direct into an interface. A tube pre probably wouldn’t be my first choice, would rather have something more forward sounding. Just my two cents

 

[gyraf]

I'm inclined to call BS - an attempt to cash in on those that worship the C800G not because of what it does, but because of its expensiveness, easy recognizability and genre tradition.

 

[Khron]

This looks like a commissioned piece for a particular client’s needs,

* desires

 

[vmanj]

It turns out that vintage equipment must be perfectly coordinated with each other .. through transformer "devices", and this is very expensive and difficult.

Those. you need to have not only a microphone, but also the entire coordinated chain to the recorder ..

Probably the "best sound" should be in a modern transformerless microphone, which is "perfectly" matched with a modern interface..??

 

[electronaut]

I'm inclined to call BS - an attempt to cash in on those that worship the C800G not because of what it does, but because of its expensiveness, easy recognizability and genre tradition.

Hi Jakob,

I'm sorry to see your trash-talking here with regard to me and my project. I've always respected you and your work and I can't imagine trash-talking your projects or speculating on your motives in a public forum. That would feel petty and unnecessary.

You're putting a negative spin on my project -- the first thing I've done in this space in years -- and yet your comments are uninformed and wrong. Please allow me to correct the record.

I spent seven months designing this preamp and exactly ONE unit exists in the world. The client now wants two more, so I'm currently building those, which means soon there will be THREE omfg. The idea that building three pieces of handmade tube gear amounts to "cashing in" on something is outrageously stupid, and you undoubtedly know that, Jakob. Probably better than most people.

This project is exactly that: a project, not a "product". It's not for sale on websites or through dealers, it won't be reviewed in magazines, there won't be demo units floating around or demos at fancy studios, etc. There's literally ZERO marketing "BS" going on here.

This project has been a deeply satisfying and rewarding *experiment* that was borne of many interesting conversations with a friend. The design turned out great and I'm excited about it so I talked about it a little on Instagram. Don't be so easily offended FFS.

The philosophy behind this preamp doesn't make any sense.

Barry, I had to laugh when I read that. I'd love to hear your description of my philosophy behind this preamp!

My comments about the "sweet spot" describe a *measured result*, not a philosophy. The typical range of signal levels that the C800g produces in my client's application is nicely aligned to the optimal range of input levels that produce the best results from the preamp, with regard to noise and harmonic distortion.

Is this some earth-shattering, game-changing technological claim? Uh, no lol. It's just an *optimization* that worked out nicely.

The preamp's noise floor is lower than the microphone's, and the preamp can easily swing +22 dBu into 600 ohms with negligible distortion, so it hardly matters if the signal goes out of this "sweet spot" range -- it's just nice when "typical" and "optimal" align.

Anyway, the point here is, it's the range of input levels I'm referring to, not some specific level, so your comment about levels changing with proximity is not relevant.

If having a special preamp was a requirement for that mic to sound "good" why didn't Sony make one for it (or anyone else, before this?)

No one said that.

-and-

you're missing the point.

Why is this "the world's first C800G mic preamp"?

That "world's first" comment was not something I said -- it was said by my client's engineer, who was excited to try something no one had ever used before. If I thought it was an important point to make, I would have said it myself.

What is important, I think, is that it's possible to squeeze out a little extra performance from a tube-based mic pre if you can narrow the focus to one specific mic, get rid of everything you don't need, and look for ways to optimize the circuit for the peculiarities of the mic -- an admittedly luxurious and unconventional approach. That was the whole point of the project, and I was excited to discover several areas where those optimizations made a small difference, and ultimately hoped that they would all add up to something worthwhile. Time will tell of course, but so far I'm convinced that it was worthwhile.

Yeah, but cherry tree . . .

My late wife and I lived and worked in the same loft in Chicago for fifteen years. In many ways my work was mentally intertwined with hers, and after her passing, I found it difficult to thrive in the same space. Then, covid hit and I bailed. I now live in a town of 200 people in northeast Wisconsin, surrounded by cherry orchards, and practically every aspect of my life has changed.

When I finally dusted off the soldering iron and began this project, I tried to make a regular rack-mount design, but I just couldn't do it. The circuit design process was going great but the physical design process wasn't happening -- it felt too much like my old life and I was getting tripped up by it. Fortunately, my client is incredibly cool and gave me the green light to go ahead and do whatever I wanted, and within a few hours of getting that green light, this design came together almost effortlessly.

So yes, I made this preamp out of a cherry tree, because I'm only good at doing stuff I'm excited about, and trying my hand at finger-jointed cherry boxes was exciting to me for whatever reason. I love how it turned out and my client does too, and that's all that matters.

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While it's a bummer to come back to this forum after so long away and be faced with all this cynicism and negativity, I certainly won't lose any sleep over it. I'm super happy to be doing electronics again and it's making me think of a million other things I want to try. For me, that's where the fun is, and that's where I intend to aim my focus.

Happy DIY'ing and music-making.

-Rob Roy

 

[Barry Hufker]

Rob Roy,

I'm sorry if I have misunderstood or offended you.