WTF Florida?

[AnalogPackrat]

These are worldwide problems. That's why we have a government, and the democrats seem to be doing a much better job than republicans, especially if you want to talk about selfish.

Disagree completely. Having watched CA descend from what it was in 1992 when I arrived to what it became by 2021 when I exited, it is apparent what the root causes were/are. Meanwhile, the small Southern state I left in 1992 has improved and become a destination for businesses and citizens who are leaving places like California. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it is far better than California has become (and will continue to be for quite some time).

I've paid my dues - Peace Corps, Viet Nam, and a career working in community health clinics. I still pay taxes (federal), donate to charities, and help my acquaintances less fortunate than me when I can.

Good for you. But the people you're electing are offsetting that with terribly damaging policy. Is your state better than it was 20, 30, 40 years ago?

Somewhere I've read, "If it is to be, it is up to me."

Yes, and that includes learning from your mistakes.

 

[crazydoc]

Well, you enjoy your life there believing what you want to believe, and I'll enjoy mine here believing what I want to believe.

 

[Jim McKeveny]

It's not a law (yet) but FL is where woke goes to die.

JR

Waiting on an agreed definition of "woke".

 

[Jim McKeveny]

Disagree completely. Having watched CA descend from what it was in 1992 when I arrived to what it became by 2021 when I exited, it is apparent what the root causes were/are. Meanwhile, the small Southern state I left in 1992 has improved and become a destination for businesses and citizens who are leaving places like California. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it is far better than California has become (and will continue to be for quite some time).


Good for you. But the people you're electing are offsetting that with terribly damaging policy. Is your state better than it was 20, 30, 40 years ago?


Yes, and that includes learning from your mistakes.

The state and world) has changed, just as your illusion of 30 years ago. Was there an expectation they wouldn't? You made your choice and left. Sounds like freedom

 

[JohnRoberts]

Waiting on an agreed definition of "woke".

Like many words these days the definition is being shaped by different users, to mean different things.

Back in the 50s it meant being aware of racial and social injustice. These days it is often used pejoratively by conservatives describing hyper progressive policies.

In FL where that messaging came from, there is an effort by the Governor and his administration to unwind and thwart over the top progressive laws and policies.

This thread appears to be triggered by next years upcoming national election. Gov DeSantis is highly regarded as a potential republican candidate for 2024 so he is already being aggressively smeared by liberal political operatives trying to cancel him in advance despite his not even announcing yet.

JR

 

[Matador]

Waiting on an agreed definition of "woke".

https://floridapolitics.com/archive...esantis-officials-answer-what-does-woke-mean/

During the three-day trial this week challenging Gov. Ron DeSantis’ suspension of Hillsborough County State Attorney Andrew Warren, attorneys for Warren were able to put that question to aides for DeSantis, who called Florida the place where “woke goes to die” in his victory speech after being reelected last month.
...
Asked what “woke” means more generally, Newman said “it would be the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.”...Newman added that DeSantis doesn’t believe there are systemic injustices in the U.S.

So putting it all together, Florida is "where the need to address systemic injustices in American society goes to die."

 

[Recording Engineer]

This thread appears to be triggered by next years upcoming national election. Gov DeSantis is highly regarded as a potential republican candidate for 2024 so he is already being aggressively smeared by liberal political operatives trying to cancel him in advance despite his not even announcing yet.

I do not agree. It is has become standard and now a political-group, stay-strong-together - political-strategy (propelled by 24-hours “news” to get it to the masses) to use the easiest and cheapest political defenses with smear-campaign, fake-news, liberal-media, voter-fraud, anti-woke, white lives matter, etc., for some of the most stupidest, crappiest, ugliest proposals, policies, and laws. I do not know how people do not see. I suppose it is that they are too consumed; like being deep in bad romantic-relationships, etc.

Of course, it goes the other way too.

 

[crazydoc]

to use the easiest and cheapest political defenses with smear-campaign, fake-news, liberal-media, voter-fraud, anti-woke, white lives matter, etc.,

Gov DeSantis is highly regarded as a potential republican candidate for 2024 so he is already being aggressively smeared by liberal political operatives trying to cancel him in advance despite his not even announcing yet.

JR

And of course, operatives in his own party using low grade AI:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-de...ial-election-4d61487294f9218855b8e6e89f0c8ccc

 

[crazydoc]

So putting it all together, Florida is "where the need to address systemic injustices in American society goes to die."

I think a lot of people go there to die too.

 

[JohnRoberts]

And of course, operatives in his own party using low grade AI:

https://apnews.com/article/trump-de...ial-election-4d61487294f9218855b8e6e89f0c8ccc

I try not to read minds but some partisan operatives believe ex-president Trump would be easier to beat by president Biden. While there is plenty of time between now and then. (I am not attempting to predict the 2024 matchup when so few have even declared yet).
===
Musk is trying to clean up twitter but that may be like bailing out a sinking rowboat with a teaspoon.

JR

PS: I do find Vivek Ramaswamy (R), entrepreneur and political commentator, announced his campaign on February 21, 2023, pretty interesting. Sadly he is too smart, and too young to win.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The state and world) has changed, just as your illusion of 30 years ago.

It is no illusion what has happened. Trying to excuse it with some blanket statement about "change" is ridiculous. Of course things change. Some changes are undeniably bad.

Was there an expectation they wouldn't?

There should be an expectation that the general conditions within the world's largest free country will not degrade as they have. We didn't get where we were by defeatist attitudes like that.

You made your choice and left. Sounds like freedom

Yes, for me. But plenty of people are stuck in CA and other similar places. Should they have to suffer because the majority of Californians keep electing idiots to run things (into the ground)?

 

[Recording Engineer]

Yes, for me. But plenty of people are stuck in CA and other similar places. Should they have to suffer because the majority of Californians keep electing idiots to run things?

Ummm… That’s how it works and about as American as it gets. In the US, 51% are free to kick themselves in the shin and the other 49% suffer from it. Have enough money and you may be lucky enough to not feel the pain.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Ummm… That’s how it works and about as American as it gets. In the US, 51% are free to kick themselves in the shin and the other 49% suffer from it. Have enough money and you may be lucky enough to not feel the pain.

No, creating trans-generational government dependency and not upholding the rule of law is not "how it works" in America. Avoiding tyranny of the majority is important as well. Fail.

 

[wlinart]

Yes, for me. But plenty of people are stuck in CA and other similar places. Should they have to suffer because the majority of Californians keep electing idiots to run things (into the ground)?

Doesn't that work both ways, with people being stuck in for example Florida who prefer the "idiothic" policies of California but don't have the means of moving?

 

[john12ax7]

I blamed Biden and Democrat Governors and Mayors for ruining the economy.

CA is so messed up the economy might overtake Germany as the 4th largest in the world. Sounds like a failed state.

Then there's the excessive spending (also helped along by some conservatives) which has led to inflation.

Except that is not how economics actually works. Tax and spend or tax and borrow just shifts demand among sectors, aggregate demand isn't that different, and the impact on inflation is very little. What does actually impact inflation is monetary supply, which is controlled by Fed.

The context of my reply was simply rebutting crazydoc's assertion that everything is just great under Biden (and Newsom) and his investments are better because of higher interest rates regardless of rampant inflation.

Except you didn't reply to crazydoc, you rebutted Gold complaining about your investments. They are tanking due to higher interest rates, which once again has to do with the Fed, not Biden or democrat governors.

 

[Recording Engineer]

No, creating trans-generational government dependency and not upholding the rule of law is not "how it works" in America. Avoiding tyranny of the majority is important as well. Fail.

What you’re labeling as tyranny may not necessarily be held up legally as tyranny in our courts. Your tyranny may simply be your perspective.

Creating transgenerational government dependency is a whole other topic, but off the top of my head, a lot is not much fault of the people. Stealing land from the Native Americans lead to transgenerational poverty. Slavery and Jim Crow lead to transgernerational poverty. War leads to alcohol and drug abuse. That leads to transgenerational poverty.

 

[hodad]

CA is so messed up the economy might overtake Germany as the 4th largest in the world. Sounds like a failed state.

Indeed. CA has not quite double the population of FL and 4 times as many manufacturing jobs.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Doesn't that work both ways, with people being stuck in for example Florida who prefer the "idiothic" policies of California but don't have the means of moving?

I'm not talking about preferences, but abject objective failures like not prosecuting crime, failing to provide services that fall in the public domain, inability to budget, etc. Not the same thing at all.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

CA is so messed up the economy might overtake Germany as the 4th largest in the world. Sounds like a failed state.

Ah, the tired old chestnut appears again. Germany's failures don't forgive California's. California's private sector succeeded despite bad government, not because of it (at least for the past 15-20 years). Now that the old aerospace and silicon valley (chips and HW) industries have gone and been replaced mostly by SW, services, and "social media" industries, the only thing keeping people and businesses there is the climate. But crime, homelessness, high taxes, ever more restrictive laws, and high cost of living are driving hundreds of thousands out every year. Meanwhile much of the offset immigration is low skill, low wage (or fully gov dependent) which won't pay for the state gov's outrageous spending habits.

Except that is not how economics actually works. Tax and spend or tax and borrow just shifts demand among sectors, aggregate demand isn't that different, and the impact on inflation is very little. What does actually impact inflation is monetary supply, which is controlled by Fed.

And what has the Fed done under Biden to react to bad Dem policies? The Fed doesn't operate in a vacuum.

Except you didn't reply to crazydoc, you rebutted Gold complaining about your investments. They are tanking due to higher interest rates, which once again has to do with the Fed, not Biden or democrat governors.

What killed the economy in 2020? Hint: it wasn't Covid.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Indeed. CA has not quite double the population of FL and 4 times as many manufacturing jobs.

So? TX has higher per capita manufacturing jobs than CA. So do other states. FL has never been big in manufacturing, rather agriculture, fishing, tourism, and aerospace. There seem to be plenty of other jobs there (as well as non-employment related attractors). Maybe you could explain to us why so many are moving there (and TN, SC, TX, ID, etc) and away from CA, NY, NJ, IL, etc.