Recommendations on how I can learn to build a Sony C800G clone

[FarisElek]

I'm not part of this discussion and don't claim to know how thin mylar can get. I've put 0 research into unlike some people in this group. I just think how one runs their public business social media account says a lot about their overall character. This is my opinion. You can have a different one.


Ryan

 

[kingkorg]

Expand on that please.

Are you aware of what happened to MicRehab?

 

[gyraf]

Expand on that please.

https://realgearonline.com/thread/9970/mic-rehab-ghosting

..Uh-oh, not really reassuring..

 

[Recording Engineer]

quote author=FarisElek link=topic=71484.msg978223#msg978223 date=1612374528]
I'm not part of this discussion and don't claim to know how thin mylar can get. I've put 0 research into unlike some people in this group. I just think how one runs their public business social media account says a lot about their overall character. This is my opinion. You can have a different one.


Ryan
[/quote]

We might/probably see eye-to-eye on that, but is something that holds no bearing in this discussion, and should to be continued in The Brewery.

 

[FarisElek]

quote author=FarisElek link=topic=71484.msg978223#msg978223 date=1612374528]
I'm not part of this discussion and don't claim to know how thin mylar can get. I've put 0 research into unlike some people in this group. I just think how one runs their public business social media account says a lot about their overall character. This is my opinion. You can have a different one.


Ryan


We might/probably see eye-to-eye on that, but is something that holds no bearing in this discussion, and should to be continued in The Brewery.

Fair enough.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Are you aware of what happened to MicRehab?
[/quote

I am well-aware, but by saying I shot myself in the foot, I thought you might have more insight. That doesn’t seem to be the case though. So, based on what I know, Shannon, a singular person, fell off the bandwagon again and really screwed others and himself. What does this have to with the topic at hand of claiming 1-micron Mylar is BS? Allen Luke was already well into doing his own thing in early 2015 when I first tried him with new Flea backplates that he modded and skinned for me.

 

[Gus]

threads like this take the fun away. This could have been a nicer thread

 

[kingkorg]

This is not the first time it happens, and there is a common thread here.

Certain people, mostly boutique cathegory, seem to be advertising their products indirectly through their peers on this forum. The moment someone tries to point to flaws, or lacks within their business model the whole hell breaks lose. 

I personally can't stand claims that sprinkling boutique dust over "otherwise inferior chinese products'' by western country "guru" and charging 250$ for something that costs 25$, makes anything sound better.

I can't think how people who make those products in the west, from scratch for real, and still manage to charge around 250$ might feel.

Yes, those pimped 250$ chinese products sound good because they did sound good even stock for 25$.

As long as i don't get banned from this place i will continue to come forward and do my best to point to "manufacturers" who follow this business model.

MicReahab for example "modded" Slate ML1 by changing stock chinese capsule, for another 30$ chinese capsule with allegedly 1 micron mylar and charged hefty amount for the service.

Even though the Slate software was made to work with the stock capsule, the "new improved one" sounded suddenly better than original Telefunken, Akg, Neumans it was trying to emulate.

Needles to say there was never one single measurement taken, posted, reported. Yet all of these guys have Facebook/Insta pictures of their facilities, none of which resembles anything appropriate for any kind of capsule work.

There is a handful of people who make capsules, they have been around for a while, all the rest are frauds. End of story.


Edit:
The reason i write all this is because i lost more than two years of my life chasing "the capsule", YET MEASURED EACH AND EVERY ONE I COULD GET MY HANDS ON!
How surprising it was when i found out most of them are the same thing no matter where they came from.

Now i service a lot of mics for a lot of local people simply because i am the only one around. However i charge peanuts for what i do if at all, because i've taken "guru" aspect out of it. And because i have a real job. Most of the time i just get rid of what previous "guru" did before me, and things miraculously start working again. 

 

[Recording Engineer]

You’re right. This is not the first time I’ve seen an instant know-it-all attitude after someone asks a completely genuine, honest question. It’s what rubs the wrong way right off.

Then with the continuation of strong accusations and convictions, as if it’s a done deal before it even started, without an ounce of evidence presented, that doesn’t help the case.

From what I’ve seen, since the beginning of the internet, you alone have now begun a conspiracy-theory of a scam spanning a good 30-years among multiple actors of a few generations. My mind is open to the hard evidence, to change my mind about what I know of history, but I shouldn’t have to ask. It should have been presented from the moment of accusation.

You’re among the ones that contribute most here. I find your posts highly-valuable and helpful. I very well appreciate it. Thank you. Seriously.

 

[rogs]

I'm a relative newcomer to the world of mics - although I have been involved with audio engineering in some form for many years.
As a newcomer, I was in awe of the 'magical' properties assigned to certain types of microphone - mostly expensive vintage German mics of course.

It was only as I tried out different mic experiments - and bought several types of Chinese (usually cheap) LDC capsules - that I began to realise just how much 'fairy dust' there is out there when it comes to microphones.

Rather than rely on other folks opinions on subjects like " brittle top end"  and "quite nice 'air' " and other such phrases, I simply did my own comparisons, using relatively simple test equipment, and a small selection of well known known commercial mics as references. (Rode NT1, Shure SM58, AKG 202-E1).

It soon became clear that much of the 'boutique' mic world is either way up into the higher echelons of the 'law of diminishing returns' - or, more commonly, just plain 'hype'.

But, just as the fashion industry makes a fortune out of designer handbags, so the 'fluff' surrounding 'magical' microphone properties puts that subject into the same sort of world.

I did enjoy doing my RF experiments though - only Sennheiser and Rode with commercial  versions, and no interest (and therefore no 'hype' ) from the boutique mic world.
Refreshing to find a relatively 'unspoilt' area of the DIY hobby microphone world to play around in!

 

[Recording Engineer]

Well I don’t believe in fairy-dust, but I do believe propriety is still a practicing principal. I know it’s a hard concept in a world of open-source. Why is it known as fairy-dust for boutique and proprietorship for someone like Neumann?

There’s many super helpful people that go far above and beyond in sharing their knowledge, but there are still real, solid reasons not to give away the entire farm by sharing their intellectual property; I mean fairy-dust.

 

[rogs]

...Why is it known as fairy-dust for boutique and proprietorship for someone like Neumann?

It's not -  'fairy dust' can be applied to either.
 
Yes, Neumann make some superb microphones....and are rightly acknowledged as pioneers, especially in the design of LDC capsules
Are the microphones worth the ridiculous prices often charged? -- almost certainly not.

I remember watching this video for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrXFC5Pyhs 

Is the Neumann 'better' than the Rode? - - probably -- although some folk might argue differently.

Is the Neumann more than £7500 'better' than the Rode? -- No. That's just a nonsense price.

So, two similar professional LDC microphones with a massive price differential.  That simply can't be justified technically....

That leaves 'fairy dust' as the only other reason.

So no, it's not just 'boutique' mics..

(All just IMHO of course  )

 

[Recording Engineer]

I actually agree. But really, what you’re describing is not fairy dust, but an open market.

 

[rogs]

.....But really, what you’re describing is not fairy dust, but really an open market.

In an open market, the concept of  'Veblen goods' - like Neumann microphones - is a valid concept.
'Boutique' microphone folk often simply 'jump onto the coat-tails' of that concept. 
Makes some people quite a lot of money - and good luck to them.... They know there's a virtually endless supply of new suckers  - sorry! - 'customers' out there.
But technically - and from a sensible basic economics standpoint - it's still mostly 'fairy dust' ...

 

[Banzai]

I remember watching this video for the first time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnrXFC5Pyhs

Not sure the average Rode buyer has a $50,000-$80,000 Neve desk lying around... 

 

[rogs]

Not sure the average Rode buyer has a $50,000-$80,000 Neve desk lying around... 

No, but as both microphones were being compared through the same Neve console, we are listening to whatever differences there are between the microphones, and can thus dismiss any confusing elements that may be have been introduced by a lesser pre-amp chain....

Sorry, I simply can't accept that there is more than £7500 worth of  engineering - or any other 'technical' - superiority in that Neumann mic.
A large proportion of that price differential has to be down to 'fairy dust' ...

But because it is a "Veblen good", you could probably increase the price of that U47 by a further £1000 - or maybe even £2000? - and still sell it!
Nice work if you can get it.. 

 

[Recording Engineer]

I don’t know... I think you’re still describing an open market, regardless of any caveats injected.

The reality is that it takes two to tango, and with Telefunken Electroakustik being around for as long as it has, with their absolutely, stupidity, outrageous prices, things are working the way they’re suppose to; regardless of how much I won’t participate.

 

[rogs]

I don’t know... I think you’re still describing an open market, regardless of any caveats injected.

You're absolutely right - it is all part of an open market.
The clever bit is deciding how you choose to price your 'fairy dust'  - and then getting folk to pay that price for said fairy dust.

Creating Veblen goods is a sophisticated artform --- The prices are often so silly, that the actual quality of the item being sold becomes almost academic.
But if you are good at it -- and when I see the prices some 'boutique' mic suppliers charge for Chinese capsules, it seems some of them are quite good at it -  then there's some quite serious money to be made..

 

[Banzai]

No, but as both microphones were being compared through the same Neve console, we are listening to whatever differences there are between the microphones, and can thus dismiss any confusing elements that may be have been introduced by a lesser pre-amp chain....

Not really how that works. The Neve acts like a funnel, adding a distinct shape and colour to everything passing through it. Can replicate 1 of those channels with a ton of outboard, but then you bought a $5,000 vocal chain to record a $200 Rode... Not likely in the real world.

Point is the U47 doesn't need fancy gear to sound good. Plugged into a generic digital preamp on a cheap converter, the old Neumann will rip that Rode's soul out.

Sorry, I simply can't accept that there is more than £7500 worth of  engineering - or any other 'technical' - superiority in that Neumann mic.
A large proportion of that price differential has to be down to 'fairy dust' ...
But because it is a "Veblen good", you could probably increase the price of that U47 by a further £1000 - or maybe even £2000? - and still sell it!
Nice work if you can get it.. 

U47's were sold for around $3000 in today's money. Nothing stupid about paying current prices either, as it's a sound investment. NT1's are disposable items – if it breaks you're meant to throw it away and buy another. If you send it back for a warranty repair, Rode throws it away and gives you a new one. Fast Electronics.

But I don't think you've really thought about what goes into the pricing of microphone's you see listed online. Apart from the Rode's, MXL's, and Warm's, no-one's getting rich selling boutique anything. There isn't anywhere near the volume you imagine.

 

[rogs]

Not really how that works. The Neve acts like a funnel, adding a distinct shape and colour to everything passing through it. Can replicate 1 of those channels with a ton of outboard, but then you bought a $5,000 vocal chain to record a $200 Rode... Not likely in the real world.

Point is the U47 doesn't need fancy gear to sound good. Plugged into a generic digital preamp on a cheap converter, the old Neumann will rip that Rode's soul out.
U47's were sold for around $3000 in today's money. Nothing stupid about paying current prices either, as it's a sound investment. NT1's are disposable items – if it breaks you're meant to throw it away and buy another. If you send it back for a warranty repair, Rode throws it away and gives you a new one. Fast Electronics.

But I don't think you've really thought about what goes into the pricing of microphone's you see listed online. Apart from the Rode's, MXL's, and Warm's, no-one's getting rich selling boutique anything. There isn't anywhere near the volume you imagine.

As I have said earlier, my comments are all my own opinions. You are - of course - entitled to your own

I don't accept your contention about the Neve desk...
Both microphones are being compared through identical preamplifiers - Neve or otherwise.
So any differences being heard are from the microphones themselves - which is the whole point of the demonstration.
There are also downloadable  high resolution versions of the recorded audio available , so even differences introduced by You Tube compression can be ignored.

I derived my (slightly generous) price differential from the price one would pay today for the style of U47 being tested. See here: https://www.thomann.de/gb/telefunken_u_47.htm )

Your phrase about the Neumann 'ripping the Rode's soul out' when used with a 'cheap converter'  sounds very impressive. I think you may find you are well suited, should you decide on a career in the world of Veblen goods !

Of course, if you are looking to make comparisons by introducing non- linear aspects into the test chain, then that's a new subject, and not really what I am commenting on.

I think you've slightly missed the point on the concept of 'Veblen goods'.  The higher the price, the bigger the market grows .
Investing in a Neumann U47 - or several other specific types of overpriced microphones - may well be a good investment.
But that won't be for technical reasons. .. Just Veblen - or 'fairy dust' - ones.

As I have indicated throughout, these are just my own opinions. 
There will always be an virtually endless supply of folk prepared to pay silly prices for certain items  of 'special' audio kit. That can be Hammond organs or Fender guitars - or Neumann microphones..etc,etc....
If you are into that kind of world, there's certainly good money to be made, although I do appreciate not everyone will become rich!