ding
Well-known member
kakumei47 said:
That was my plan as soon as a BOM is available for it. Anyone hear any news on that front?
PRR-176 REV 4 Build Thread ***Manual up!***1/16/14 - (chk 1st post)
- Thread starter abechap024
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
That was my plan as soon as a BOM is available for it. Anyone hear any news on that front?
To be honest, I am beginning to lose patience waiting for the schematic and BOM.ding said:
Abe must have schematics in order to do PCB layouts, and it would take but a couple of minutes to upload them here or at the AC Sound web site. Or if the schematic is substantially the same as Rev2, then just say so and briefly detail the changes.
I would also like Abe to confirm if the DOA footprint is a layout error, or if it is intentional that only the supplied DOA boards be used.
I don't think these concerns are unreasonable?
ding
Well-known member
I certainly don't want to get into a b!thfest about this so this will be my only comment on the matter and then I will stick to technical posts only.
While I do agree with mrdarwin that the CLX160 manual is very useful and professional and that having something like this would be an excellent resource, there hasn't been any comments on the part of Abe that this is what he is doing. In fact the previous Rev 2 only had a BOM and a wiring guide. Now I don't know what is happening in Abe's life and I would imagine that there has to be something going on but the fact of the matter is that this project seems to have stalled. It would be nice to have any conformation on what is happening like..."working on the manual, here is the schematics in the meantime," or "sorry but my life has been crazy and I don't have time to focus on this right now, here is a quick BOM for the DOA's." The fact that people are still receiving boards at least shows that this has not been abandoned but a quick pop in by Abe to reassure people would definitely be welcomed by some. The fact that the white market thread has disappeared has made some people nervous. Abe received those boards 2 months ago and there were lots of problems with the manufacturer before that (not Abe's fault) so there has been plenty of time to at least put up a simple schematic and a BOM for the DOA's. I must say that Abe is a well respected member of this community and highly regarded by me. In no way am I suggesting that he has done anything but help the community grow. What I am expressing is a genuine understanding for those people who have concerns regarding this project. If Abe popped in and let people know his situation or an update, everyone here would understand plus it would ease some peoples anxiety about the project. Just my opinions.
Now I'm going to get off my soapbox about this and get back to supporting this project technically as much as I can. I can't wait to get this bad boy done. Abe, thanks for getting this out to the community!
-Alain
While I do agree with mrdarwin that the CLX160 manual is very useful and professional and that having something like this would be an excellent resource, there hasn't been any comments on the part of Abe that this is what he is doing. In fact the previous Rev 2 only had a BOM and a wiring guide. Now I don't know what is happening in Abe's life and I would imagine that there has to be something going on but the fact of the matter is that this project seems to have stalled. It would be nice to have any conformation on what is happening like..."working on the manual, here is the schematics in the meantime," or "sorry but my life has been crazy and I don't have time to focus on this right now, here is a quick BOM for the DOA's." The fact that people are still receiving boards at least shows that this has not been abandoned but a quick pop in by Abe to reassure people would definitely be welcomed by some. The fact that the white market thread has disappeared has made some people nervous. Abe received those boards 2 months ago and there were lots of problems with the manufacturer before that (not Abe's fault) so there has been plenty of time to at least put up a simple schematic and a BOM for the DOA's. I must say that Abe is a well respected member of this community and highly regarded by me. In no way am I suggesting that he has done anything but help the community grow. What I am expressing is a genuine understanding for those people who have concerns regarding this project. If Abe popped in and let people know his situation or an update, everyone here would understand plus it would ease some peoples anxiety about the project. Just my opinions.
Now I'm going to get off my soapbox about this and get back to supporting this project technically as much as I can. I can't wait to get this bad boy done. Abe, thanks for getting this out to the community!
-Alain
I think for DIY being relaxed is the road to success
.. and a working piece of gear.
...without double and tripple checked errors you might walk into the darkness of a slightly not working machine (useless piece of gear)
.. and a working piece of gear.
...without double and tripple checked errors you might walk into the darkness of a slightly not working machine (useless piece of gear)
abechap024
Well-known member
Updated Docs!
Sorry on my end, and thanks for the patience everyone.
Also, shoot me a message or PM if you didn't get any of the 2520 opamp PCBs. That was a stupid mistake on my part. I looked at the pinout a million times and yea. I know this is a big bummer to some people, luckly I made the same mistake twice with the API opamp PCBs I have so they should just drop in.
Note: It is very possible to use any discrete opamp with the revision 4 PCBs you would just need to install them from the bottom of the board, you wouldn't be able to show them off, but they still should sound awesome.
Also the API opamp PCBs I included as a "bonus" with most all the pcbs (let me know if you didn't get some and I'll send some your way) they can be used in other projects they will just have to be inverted when installed, which actually might be a good thing.
The input and ouput potentiometers are 10k
This revision has less hiss and lower distortion than the others. I think you will find this more pleasing. A little smoother.
We changed some resistor values from the Silkscreen. a 100k resistor dealing with the input section potentiometer (makes the taper more even) changed it to a 2k.
Changed the 3k3 resistors that feed the CV to the tubes to 6k8 as the original 176 schematic and after many listening and tweaking tests, seems to help the overall gain staging.
You can get rid of the 5k threshold pot and just jumper it, of course you can leave it in and adjust the threshold to how you want it...its a very interesting adjustment it can change the tone and gain structure. I found just jumping it gave good results and simplified the calibration.
Also there are 3 little wire jumpers that need to be added on the PCB board itself. As shown on the wiring guide
I'll be adding more as it comes.
Thanks
Sorry on my end, and thanks for the patience everyone.
Also, shoot me a message or PM if you didn't get any of the 2520 opamp PCBs. That was a stupid mistake on my part. I looked at the pinout a million times and yea. I know this is a big bummer to some people, luckly I made the same mistake twice with the API opamp PCBs I have so they should just drop in.
Note: It is very possible to use any discrete opamp with the revision 4 PCBs you would just need to install them from the bottom of the board, you wouldn't be able to show them off, but they still should sound awesome.
Also the API opamp PCBs I included as a "bonus" with most all the pcbs (let me know if you didn't get some and I'll send some your way) they can be used in other projects they will just have to be inverted when installed, which actually might be a good thing.
The input and ouput potentiometers are 10k
This revision has less hiss and lower distortion than the others. I think you will find this more pleasing. A little smoother.
We changed some resistor values from the Silkscreen. a 100k resistor dealing with the input section potentiometer (makes the taper more even) changed it to a 2k.
Changed the 3k3 resistors that feed the CV to the tubes to 6k8 as the original 176 schematic and after many listening and tweaking tests, seems to help the overall gain staging.
You can get rid of the 5k threshold pot and just jumper it, of course you can leave it in and adjust the threshold to how you want it...its a very interesting adjustment it can change the tone and gain structure. I found just jumping it gave good results and simplified the calibration.
Also there are 3 little wire jumpers that need to be added on the PCB board itself. As shown on the wiring guide
I'll be adding more as it comes.
Thanks
abechap024
Well-known member
berkleystudios said:
You could still use 100k. You would have to change another resistor around the output gain-stage. Just increase the value a bit. I'll look into some values once I get the schematic posted. There might be slightly more hiss from the higher impedance of the gain stage, but considering there is a tube with a very quiet signal right before it that needs to be boosted, the tube hiss will probably swamp any opamp hiss.
Winetree
Well-known member
Just checked out the BUILD BOX.
Page loads up but with error on page message, and nothing happens when I click the -box
or the headings in the box. Still running Windows XP pro.
Do I need something else (Java) or it's just not working yet?
Page loads up but with error on page message, and nothing happens when I click the -box
or the headings in the box. Still running Windows XP pro.
Do I need something else (Java) or it's just not working yet?
abechap024
Well-known member
ilfungo said:
For in and out Log and for attack/release either will work. Im not sure which ones will result in a better taper. I am guessing linear would but I havent sat down and tested it. Anyone?
ding
Well-known member
Is using the OPA2604 on U14,U15,U31,U32 a waste of money or will it make a difference? Its 12mA vs 16mA for the NE5532P.
abechap024
Well-known member
ding said:
It could very well make an improvement. Though I cant guarantee they will be stable. The input circuitry is from a douglas self inspired circuit and Is very ingenious though I don't know how well it lends itself to opamp swapping. The output section is much more standard and should be fine. (Not to say the input wouldn't be fine either)
shot
Well-known member
Abe, thank you for chiming in and posting those documents. Awesome!!
I have few questions before I start ordering components.
1) You mention that release pot can be 5M for long release. What about using standard 1M pot in series with 1M switchable resistor? Would that be usefull?
2) Are all the 47uF lytics in the power circuit as you state in your bom? So I shouldn't care if they are audio grade and I can go with whatever model?
3) Put input pad on a switch - does that make sense?
4) Few caps are NP - thats nonpolarized, right? So I could use (wima) film caps, right?
5) In europe, with our 230V mains, it's hard to find power transformer with 110+18+18 secondary. So i have to order custom made one. What amp ratings should I specify for those secondary windings?
I have few questions before I start ordering components.
1) You mention that release pot can be 5M for long release. What about using standard 1M pot in series with 1M switchable resistor? Would that be usefull?
2) Are all the 47uF lytics in the power circuit as you state in your bom? So I shouldn't care if they are audio grade and I can go with whatever model?
3) Put input pad on a switch - does that make sense?
4) Few caps are NP - thats nonpolarized, right? So I could use (wima) film caps, right?
5) In europe, with our 230V mains, it's hard to find power transformer with 110+18+18 secondary. So i have to order custom made one. What amp ratings should I specify for those secondary windings?
4) Few caps are NP - thats nonpolarized, right? So I could use (wima) film caps, right?
5) In europe, with our 230V mains, it's hard to find power transformer with 110+18+18 secondary. So i have to order custom made one. What amp ratings should I specify for those secondary windings?
[/quote]
I bought a cheap, 220 to 110 V wallwart it was 7 euros and I took the tranny out, should be fine
5) In europe, with our 230V mains, it's hard to find power transformer with 110+18+18 secondary. So i have to order custom made one. What amp ratings should I specify for those secondary windings?
[/quote]
I bought a cheap, 220 to 110 V wallwart it was 7 euros and I took the tranny out, should be fine
shot
Well-known member
@ilfungo: Wow! Thanks for that link! I was actually browsing through Don's shop few days ago but I missed to check power transformers section! I'll check with my local manufacturer if they can top this price!
@e.oelberg: This is a neat idea! Very tempting! I don't see why this shouldn' work. Can anyone else confirm if this is ok? Are there any reason why this should be unsafe, bad,wrong or negative in any way?
thanks guys!
@e.oelberg: This is a neat idea! Very tempting! I don't see why this shouldn' work. Can anyone else confirm if this is ok? Are there any reason why this should be unsafe, bad,wrong or negative in any way?
thanks guys!
no reason why it shouldn't work. You also don't need a toroid 'cause the current is so low in won't make any buzz. for the 18+- I'd get a toroid, but still will be cheaper than don's trafo. on the other hand don's trafo will be more elegant
abechap024
Well-known member
shot said:
Possibly, I haven't tested the 5M yet either. The 1M is fine but sometimes a really long release could be useful like the original sta-level or something. You could just switch the 1M completely out of the circuit for a very long release also.
Sorry I should be more clear in the manual. "Audio Grade" is just a loose term. Some people like to know which caps have audio going through them for reasons you mention like replacing them with film or something. You could use Bi-Polar just like you can use film, power supplies, where ever. There is no reason not to always use bi-polar if you find an inexpensive and good source for them.
Yes, thats not a bad idea. But try it out, you might find you don't need it.
sure! They would be pretty large though. And you don't have to use bi-polar. Bi-polar seem to sound better, but A LOT of really great sounding things use polarized in the signal path, so use whatever you want.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you all can just replace the "1k 2watt" resistors in the power supply with "3k3 5 watt" resistors and be fine using 240V instead of 120V...I've done the calculations and nothing *should* blow up. Some one try it for me, or correct me if this is a mistake!! That would be A LOT easier for you guys, us 120V can't have all the fun.
Also for reference, it will be about 40ma of current total for the tubes.
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